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 [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP

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Carabas
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PostSubject: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Fri May 06, 2011 1:17 pm

"At midnight all the agents
And the superhuman crew
Go out and round up everyone
That knows more than they do."

-Desolation Row, Bob Dylan.


This topic is for discussing the making of a project inspired by the Watchmen graphic novel in FNV.

After exchanging some PMs with PAULMCGREGOR we've come to the conclusion that we could probably do something about it. We've discussed the possibility of adding new characters but the simple way to do this would be to change existing characters to make them look like Watchmen characters and give a Watchmen feel to the Mojave Wasteland.

Watchem is mainly characterized by its gritty realism and its dark and grim atmosphere and these elements are part and parcel of a post apocalyptic environment.

What we've established so far is that some characters could be used to match Watchmen alter egos:

->Mr House as Ozymandias
pros: House is megalomaniac, manipulative and highly intelligent

I've tried it already, the Egyptian theme could be added to Securitron who could have an Egyptian face, possibly adding Bubastis as a Securitron as well (upgraded securitrons? or the ones in the Lucly 38?).

Spoiler:
 

->Raul as Rorschach
pros: the voice acting is superb and Raul matches Rorshach's stature

The Rorshach mod is awesome, what we can do is add a muffled effect (the power armour effect) to the mask so the voice will be really badass. It would be great for the mask to change in game (if we used several mask items and have the NPC equip them following a certain sequence via a script it would be awesome -a mask when in combat, a mask when sneaking, etc).

Spoiler:
 

->Veronica as Silk Spectre
pros: unarmed specialist

The Ghost outfit provides an absolutely perfect basis for this. Only problem is that the long hair will require Lings Hair or another custom hair mod.

Spoiler:
 

->Arcade as Nite Owl
pros: brainy character with brawn and glasses

The real problem now is to make a good Nite Owl outfit (I was thinking of a quick retex of the Batman outfit but the goggles will require some work).

->Boone as the Comedian
pros: badass, military background
cons: goody two shoes, Boone's wife doesn't really fit

I've tried a Comedian character with the Wasteland shirt mod and it looked great. We could also try something with the grunt version of the bodybuilder body. The scar can be done with a custom race.

Spoiler:
 

->Benny as Moloch
pros: charismatic leader of a bunch of baddies

There is an elf race mod that adds pointy ears and that may be worth a try.

Mysterious Stranger as Dr Manhattan
pros: you never know when he may appear, too powerful to be a regular companion/foe

The bodybuilder body would be perfect with a blue retex. The gun would have to be replaced with an invisible weapon shooting blue energy (I wonder if that will break the stranger or not).

Weapons are a problem as most characters don't use guns that much so we'd have to look for variants (a cleaver or lead pipe and a short flamer for Rorshach?) and work out something for Dr Manhattan.

Bypassing companion limits should be a possibility as some of them work in team.

What about the PC? How is he or she going to fit in? What about Cass? we can see the limitations of replacing NPCs (but it has the great advantage of not having to make all the dialogues, recording and lip sync that a good NPC would require -not to mention that lip sync requires the 1.2 version of the Obivion toolset and is a real problem).

Let's start with small things and move from there.

We need modders ressources and/or authorizations to make this happen. It's probably not a bad idea to take it one step at a time.

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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Fri May 06, 2011 2:04 pm

Great job Carabas, I'm really looking forward to seeing this get into action. I've gotten my laptop back, all it requires is some small changes, and transfer of data. I've got some cool programs on there, such as 3D Max, and I'll see if I can help in any way. I'm also trying to decided if I really should put Fallout back on my computer, as since I'm nearing near the end of the school year I'm not really sure if I want any distractions for when I'm studying. But who am I kidding, I'm probably going to end up putting it on. Suggestions for this mod are greatly appreciated, and ideas will be taken into consideration.
Paul
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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Fri May 06, 2011 2:13 pm

That's cool. We also need people to test things out and give opinions about the changes before they get implemented. Just typing this gave me a few ideas (modifying Securitron screens and modifying Rorschach's mask -especially during dialogues!!!). As far as cosmetic changes are concerned it should be fairly easy. Once we're done with that we can move to more serious stuff.

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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Fri May 06, 2011 3:30 pm

I also came up with a small idea, and hopefully somebody will try working on it. Looking at the wearable Sherrif Stars on the Nexus, I realized that the smiley face button from Watchmen can also be created in the same way. All I'm asking is that if someone can just create the model, and texture (most preferably with the blood splotch). I hope it'll be an easy task if somebody is willing to do it.
Thanks.


Last edited by PAULMCGREGOR on Sat May 07, 2011 11:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Fri May 06, 2011 4:25 pm

OH!!!! very very good idea!!
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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Sat May 07, 2011 11:52 am

After playing with Boone a little more I'm not sure he fits... Perhaps we could have another character as the Comedian even if he is not a follower?

I've got a cool idea for switching masks with Rorschach during dialogues. I think it could look quite good. Besides what I have in mind is a very simple modification (i.e. simply use several masks).

We will also need posters to replace the one in the game with Watchmen themed posters (also there is the big picture of Mr House in camp golf that has to be modified possibly with a big poster featuring the Ozymandias quote: "look on my works ye mighty and despair").

I've done some work on Dr Manhattan using the RMF3 Brawler Body Resource, here is what it looks like:

Spoiler:
 

Spoiler:
 

Since I want to use him for the mysterious stranger I've edited the mysterious stranger's gun to make it invisible and use the sounds and projectiles that the alien blaster uses (blue energy). I've also added an effect from the tesla armour.

Spoiler:
 

I should add a special critical effect to the death because the killing should be particularly messy.

Spoiler:
 

The gun may be invisible but it has to use a proper firing animation. As such it looks a bit funny but I'm concerned about not breaking the weapon because it would seriously mess things up for the Mysterious Stranger. The good thing is that the Mysterious Stranger vanishes very quickly so it won't be so noticeable in game (at worst it will look as if he is pointing his finger).

Warning: Dr Manhattan is naked. Correct me if I'm wrong but he is often stark naked in the comics (and even in the movie). I didn't want him to strut around in a suit.

I haven't tested the Mysterious Stranger in game but most of the work is done, if you want to test it use this link.

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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Sat May 07, 2011 4:52 pm

Wow, you are a freaking genius. Everything looks great, and Dr.Manhattan looks great. I also got an idea thinking for how he'll aim the weapon, Weapon Animation Replacers (W.A.R) on the Nexus has a one handed shotting animation, so when the player shoots only one handed holds the gun. This can be tweaked if necessary, but I've used it in game and it would work perfectly. Just one small thing. You don't want to give him his black speedo? If this mod were to be officially published on the Nexus, it'd be marked down under adult content.

And also, I've fixed up my entire laptop, I'm just debating if I should put Fallout back on. With this mods progress, I think I'm going to.

Paul
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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Sat May 07, 2011 6:53 pm

Thank you but I didn't make the meshes, I just used them and played with textures a bit. I've decided not to implement size change and growth because I don't think it would work that well given how the camera moves around the Mysterious Stranger.

We could give him some optional underwear I guess as I think you may be right... some people are going to be offended if he walks around like this. Laughing

I haven't thought about this mod. So if a player has this mod installed then Dr Manhattan would "shoot" with only one hand... That's a pretty good idea Paul! Wink

That would solve the issue and that is something that can be added to the recommended mods section in the readme (when we get there).

I still have to fix the death effect of the weapon, as it is it's not as gruesome as Dr Manhattan's attacks in the comics or the movie.

Also find some underwear. Laughing

I'm thinking about changing textures for the Securitrons: Yes Man, regular securitrons and upgraded ones, House's girl and possibly Victor.

The smiley button could be used (for Yes Man?):

Spoiler:
 

Any ideas regarding Bubastis?

Spoiler:
 

Different pictures of Bubastis could be used for regular and upgraded securitrons? I'm not so sure about that.

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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Sat May 07, 2011 7:51 pm

True, it's best just to keep him the way he is.

Wouldn't it work if you added a sortof bluish effect to the bloody mess, and once the person was killed they'd turn into a pile of ash?

For the underwear, I remember Robert's body had an optional mesh that gave the player a speedo, instead of them being fully nude. A quick retex of that could do the job.

It could. And for Bubastis, I'm really not sure. We could contact Dogtown who's known for creating beast like animals, and he could probably pull it off. But the thing is, he probably wouldn't be able to, as he's most likely busy with his own mods. That is if you want him in animal form.

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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Sat May 07, 2011 8:54 pm

Unless I'm mistaken when Rorschach died he more or less melted, he wasn't incinerated. But we can experiment with different ideas.

Regarding Bubastis I was thinking about having a picture for a securitron or several securitrons and not a real animal. Dogtown is really good but he would need a basis to work with. Bubastis would have to be made after the dog model and using dog animations wouldn't work since a lynx/panther would attack with claws and not just with its maw. We can't use the Yao Guai as a basis (this would be a better match). It's an idea but it doesn't look very practical for now (unless someone has a better idea).

I need to do some reading to refresh my memory.

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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Sat May 07, 2011 9:35 pm

True, it was just an idea.

Oh ok, a real animal would also be a very tedious task, Bubastis himself really shouldn't have a lot of time put into him anyways.

Also, is Nite Owl's Owlship going to be a part of this mod? If so, it could just be like tarsohns airship, being just the model of the ship put idle in a certain location.

I'll also go through the book and see if I spot anything interesting.
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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Sat May 07, 2011 9:52 pm

Though not really necessary, I just found this cool mod that contains a cool gun dedicated to the Comedian.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2568
All it requires is a quick port over to the NV world.
Spoiler:
 


Last edited by PAULMCGREGOR on Sat May 07, 2011 10:00 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : I had to mark the image as a spoiler. I didn't want to spoil anything.)
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Carabas
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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Sat May 07, 2011 11:54 pm

Nice find Paul! We would have to get a proper authorization from all modders involved before porting this. We may also try and add the Comedian's smiley to the grip of a 9mm Pistol.

I'd love to put Archie in game. For now I'm thinking about posters more than a real Archie. I can't do 3D models and stuff so unless we find an existing model that could be rigged in the game or and someone savvy enough to make it Archie is not going to be included. Although the idea of using a clutter fake Archie that would only be there but not be interacted with has some merits.

Spoiler:
 

Archie looks like big binoculars... Could we use a binocular model? Laughing

Also look at this picture:

Spoiler:
 

There is an uncanny resemblance with Batman methinks... Wink

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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Sun May 08, 2011 8:50 am

I'm looking for decent pictures to be used to replace in game posters and also to replace game slides.

Watchmen themed pictures would be cool. Things like "the end is nigh" or "who watches the watchmen" or boards that specifically refer to the characters or some events from the comics.

If you find or make anything that would fit the project please post a link.

Modified screenshots with Watchmen lookalikes could be fine.

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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Sun May 08, 2011 9:41 am

I was looking through the gane esterday, and I remember seeing posters up on the walls laballed "Fallout shelter." I think it's pretty cool, as the NV world really doesn't have that much, and they would also fit in perfectly. A quick google search got me a pretty cool looking poster:
Spoiler:
 

In game references are always a fun thing, those poster ideas would be great in game. Or maybe even graffiti if anybody knows how to do it, it would all look very cool.

Archie really does. Just taking the binocular lenses and sizing them to scale would work. And that's what I meant about Archie, he'd just be an in-game location, just like the air-ship, and could just be a player home.

He really does resemble him, the points on his head are just slanted a bit more.

Now, when I was looking through images of the comic Nite Owl and the movie Nite Owl, I found a lot of differences. Firstly, comic Nite Owl has a different head shape on the top of his mask, being more of an addition. Rather than in the movie, it is much more practical as it minuses that head part. And for the goggles, the movie Nite Owl has sortof practical superhero goggles, while in the comics he was very ovular glasses. Also, I thought it'd be cool that once the costume is done, night vision goggles added to the glasses would make it all more comic like.
Comparison:

Spoiler:
 

Oh, and here's another one of Nite Owl's awesome suits:
Spoiler:
 

Paul
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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Sun May 08, 2011 10:02 am

That last suit is superb but it's the one he used in Antartica... I guess that it would be rather hot in the Mojave desert. Very Happy

Great ideas Paul, now we need to find someone who can make bigger binoculars with a slightly modified shape so it looks a bit more like Archie. I'm useless with 3D stuff so if we want this in game we need some help.

I'm currently looking into the Rorschach part of the mod. I'm going to use Neuneun's original textures and see how I can get the mask thing to change when you talk to him.

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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Sun May 08, 2011 10:11 am

It is, I just thought it'd look cool in the mountain area of Jacobstown.

I'm still trying out 3D Max, I've only checked out the tutorial on how to make shapes Razz

I've tested Neunon's mask before, and it's great, but would it be possible to do a simple retexture to give it a more grittier look. I thought it was too white.

As for making the mask change faces, any idea on how you're planning on pulling it off. Wait, should I talk to him?
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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Sun May 08, 2011 10:20 am

I have a pretty good idea of what I want to do with the mask. I'm going to mod it, test it and then I'll report with screenshots and a new file for testing purposes.

I've seen your request for the darker look. I'm going to try to do something about it.

Great idea about Archie crashed in the mountains by the way. Good luck getting your software to work. Start small, practice makes perfect! Wink

EDIT: there are nine different faces for Rorschach, I'm going to try and use all of them.

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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Sun May 08, 2011 10:40 am

Ok, good luck with it.

I never thought about it being crashed though, it could be just like the Alien saucer just a different model.

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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Sun May 08, 2011 10:48 am

I've come up with an idea for Dr.Manhattans gun, but it'll require a pretty experiencded modder (I think). All I'm asking is that if anybody would be able to create a gun in the shape of a hand, so that it would fit right over the characters hand. Like this:
Spoiler:
 
However, the shape of his fingers should be like this:
Spoiler:
 
This would then create a cosmetic look to the weapon, making it seem like he's actually shotting beams out of his hands.

As for the lip syncing, New Vegas Bounties is a great example of perfect lip syncing. I'll do some research about the author, and maybe see if he says anything about how he created his lip syncs so perfectly.

Paul
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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Sun May 08, 2011 1:03 pm

Your second link appears to be broken. The main thing is that the game has to recognize the animation as a weapon animation because if it doesn't then it may cause all sort of unforeseen complications (like locking the game in a loop in the case of the Mysterious Stranger).

Regarding the gun, we would have to make sure that it doesn't break animation. Switching animations is not the problem, but if the animation doesn't match the "gun" it won't fire, if it doesn't fire the mysterious stranger will probably lock the game... That is really bad. All in all I'd rather be on the safe side.

Furthermore if you've ever used the Mysterious Stranger in game you've certainly noticed that he appears in Vats and disappears as soon as he's done shooting he's gone so the animation may not be that big a deal. We'll have to test this.

To make lip files we have to use the unpatched version of the Oblivion toolset (1.2) and since we can't take lines directly (or copy them) we have to type lines all over again in the Oblivion toolset in order to generate lip files. That is not only time consuming but incredibly boring.

By the way I thought about using dummy lip files copied from vanilla dialogues but it doesn't really work (looks like a badly dubbed movie).

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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Sun May 08, 2011 1:08 pm

True, it was just a suggestion.
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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Sun May 08, 2011 1:19 pm

No problem Paul. You've got a good idea for the gun thing as it is worth a try but for now the important thing is not to break anything and check out if it works correctly. I've tested it with a new character so I assume that I haven't broken anything yet.

I'm hitting a snag on Raul/Rorschach as I don't have a save to test it with. Testing is postponed until then (I have to play to get there with my current character who is somewhere around Novac at the moment).

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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Sun May 08, 2011 2:38 pm

It's fine, it's best to make sure the more important things are done.

That sucks, I'm installing Fallout now, but Steam is being a real idiot about it. I'll check some of my old saves and give you one if I find any.
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PostSubject: Re: [FNV] Desolation Row -WIP   Sun May 08, 2011 4:43 pm

That would be great. I've looked if I could find a save for testing purposes on the Nexus and they're all about pretty faces and babes. Rolling Eyes

I gess I'll have to go to Black Mountain the hard way.

I really should have kept saves from my first playthrough (the one without any mods). They would be incredibly handy now.

By the way I've tested something. I tried to use throwing animations with the Mysterious Stranger's weapon and it didn't work. I'm thinking about using an invisible throwing knife to replace the Magnum but I suspect that it would create issues later on even if I could it to work. For now there are other things that need to be done. First I have to test Raul/Rorschach.

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