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 DA choices, possible spoilers

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PostSubject: DA choices, possible spoilers   Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:19 pm

I wanted to make a thread about the choices that are offered through out the game(s). I'm mainly gonna be talking about DAO, so if you haven't played the game, there's gonna be spoilers below. I haven't played DA 2 yet and I plan to in the near future so if you want to talk about that one, please put it in spoilers for me so I won't see them. Smile

I was just finishing DAO for a second time, I'm playing a spirit mage who is very intelligent. I decided, to get the "recruiter" acheivement, to accept Loghain after I beat him at the landsmeet. So my character is thinking 'I won't have to die from the Arch-demon, Loghain will make the hit and thus atone for his actions.", which is pretty solid reasoning. Then, Morrigan comes with her ritual offer. If I refuse, she leaves then and there. Thing is, Morrigan is integral to my party. My character is a control and healing mage (paralysis, crushing prison, force field, dispel, heal, ect), Morrigan is my offensive mage (fire, ice, earth and lightning spells). Remove her, and all I'm left with is Wynne, who is another healer...

So I have to accept, but my options are 'oh no, don't leeeeeaave meeeeee... sniff sniff', 'Oh. Well, thanks for everything, I will always remember you' and 'what do I care?'. Isn't there something like 'Hey, I'm a mage, and as a mage, I'm rather curious that you want to use a baby to harness the spirit of an Old God. I really want to know what for. And you're not leaving until you tell me'. And considering I made the romance with her (the relationship was 100 (love) with her), I think it would have been really easy to convince her...

Seems really irresponsible, as a mage, to let a wild mage use the essense of an Old God as she see fit without at least a bit of supervision....


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PostSubject: Re: DA choices, possible spoilers   Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:02 am

Morrigan hooking up with a Circle Mage hardly makes sense IMO.

As for the child thing as far as I know this is not resolved in DA2 (from what I have read, I haven't played the game) and the Witch Hunt DLC is just another teaser (we get some closure but no real answers).

The bargain that can be reached with Morrigan is a complicated choice and it probably gets even more complicated if you're playing a female character who is romancing Alistair... I've been meaning to give this one a try.

The only problem I have with the ending is that the Morrigan romance gets the choice and that becomes a major turning point in the story whereas other romances don't get anything special before the big battle. I was sorely disappoined when my first character who was romancing Leliana didn't get a chance to talk to her about what would happen and make plans or simply say goodbye... All because Morrigan had to come up and suggest her bargain. It was a bit underwhelming and frankly the fact that Leliana didn't display any sign of affection toward her lover hours before he walked into Denerim to face his impending doom made it much easier for him to even consider doing the deed with Morrigan (still a difficult choice no matter what).

I'm a big fan of Morrigan because she is a believable character. My favourite part of the romance is when she acknowledges that she loves the Grey Warden which knowing what she knows can only mean that in the end she is going to be miserable. It is very moving.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure your mage could have done just fine against the Archdemon with three sidekicks. This fight is not as challenging as it seems once you get how the boss attacks.

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PostSubject: Re: DA choices, possible spoilers   Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:14 am

As with any game that offers a level of choice such as this, there's always going to flaws and holes such as these. I absolutely adore the choice Dragon Age: Origins does bring, though. Being the immense nerd I am, I actually once wrote an essay on the nature of choice in video games. Dragon Age was one of the primary examples I used when giving examples of games with real choice, simply for the amount of outcomes you can end up with. It was done really well. I always like to think of it as the unappreciated traditional, choice-heavy RPG to balance out Mass Effect's more modern conventions.
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PostSubject: Re: DA choices, possible spoilers   Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:05 am

I did like the choices in DAO. I played with a female character who was romancing Alistair. She refused Morrigan's offer and chose to sacrifice herself. Very poignant.

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PostSubject: Re: DA choices, possible spoilers   Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:42 am

There are times when choices in DAO are meaningless. The major example is the Connor situation.

Choices without consequences (or which end up with the same results) are utterly pointless and the fact that the game doesn't take into account time makes any sense of urgency irrelevant.

In other words not going to the Circle to get help and save Connor doesn't have any positive effect. Wasting time (weeks sometimes) to get to the Circle doesn't mean that the walking dead will slaughter the villagers so doing things the "hard way" doesn't mean that you're saving villagers, all it means is that you're killing a kid or forcing his mother to do it.

I hate the Connor situation because it is the perfect example of a difficult choice that becomes totally irrelevant.

Another example is whether or not to kill Flemeth. Either you have a big fight or you don't but in both cases you never get to witness the consequences of this choice. Is Morrigan doomed because of it? Does Flemeth somehow survive to avenge herself? There are just too many loose ends.

When it comes to choices DAO is fine but it is far from being perfect.

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PostSubject: Re: DA choices, possible spoilers   Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:38 pm

Yeah, the Connor situation also sums up the glitches for me in DAO. I did the game twice, I saved both Connor and the mother twice, and the game (through the codex and the epilogue) says the mother died.... well... she didn't.... And for a lot of people who made a different choice, many still saw Alistair as king in the beginning of Awakening, even though they didn't make the choice to have him as king (another pointless situation : either you choose to keep Alistair or have Loghain... nothing different happens if you have one or the other (people reacting differently to you, avenues previously locked to you are now open, etc.)...both are sword and sheild fighters.... so what am I choosing?)

Another thing, I am just starting Awakening again, but in my first run-thourgh of the expansion, I remember having to make the choice of either saving a city from the dark spawn or my keep. The keep that has been reinforced and is packed with soldiers and all my other companions (you know, the other four grey wardens...). I know that the main character is the hero, but when you have a dark spawn army that attacks your keep that is full of soldiers and has 4 level 20-30 grey wardens, does your party really make a life or death difference? I really didn't believe in that choice.

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PostSubject: Re: DA choices, possible spoilers   Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:43 pm

Oh, and I like the choice ''system'' of Mass Effect. All the choices you make have a big impact on the following games. I can't wait to get the third game to see what my choice will mean (ex : I had a romance in the first game and in the second game, my character had a falling out with the girl, so I romanced another character. I read that in the third game, there will be consequences if you abandoned your first romance).

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PostSubject: Re: DA choices, possible spoilers   Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:24 pm

What you've mentioned are bugs. Unfortunately the Connor situation is pretty buggy in the epilogue.

In my first DAO run I made the choice to sacrifice Connor because I assumed that if I walked away to run to the Circle everybody in the village would die.

Besides I also took into account that Connor was the real threat and that he was the one who brought this evil to Redcliffe (I know of his reasons but still he probably should have known better -the same applies to Jowan).

Moreover there is the fact that there is no telling whether or not Connor can possibly recover from the possession of if he will remain under the spell and become even more twisted once he becomes a man.

IMO there was no "good" choice and that was something I found very interesting. With hindsight of course you know that you can leave for the Circle and take your time to come back so it's not relevant.

In other words it can be really hard to "do the right thing" but in this instance it bears no significance.

The same applies to the Flemeth situation. Is it right to kill her when she saved you? Is it right to blindly obey Morrigan's whims? Is it right to let Morrigan be threatened by Flemeth? Or to give her the Robes of Possession?

These questions don't have easy answers but in the end the answers really don't matter within the frame of the story.

A good example of such a tough decision is the Kitty situation in Honnleath (Stone Prisoner DLC). I really enjoyed this little quest because it can turn out very differently whether you realize what's going on and whether you take the easy way out or face the threat and bear the responsibility for what happens.

There is one thing I like in DAO and that is the various comments you can get from party members when you pick up some lines. This is why DAO NPCs feel like real companions and not some robot tagging along and carrying your loot.

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PostSubject: Re: DA choices, possible spoilers   Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:20 pm

For Mass Effect, I greatly disliked the choice system. Most of the choices boiled down to "do you want to be a gentleman or a jerk?", for me, at least. I loved it when it had bigger choices, though. Like with the Krogan genophage cure in Mass Effect 2. I sat there for about ten minutes trying to decide what to do with it. Eventually, I settled on having Mordin keep it, but not use it yet.
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PostSubject: Re: DA choices, possible spoilers   Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:40 pm

Me, I stared at the screen for a while deciding whether I should kill the rachni queen or not. Severe implications.

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PostSubject: Re: DA choices, possible spoilers   Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:20 pm

Ah, that one was an easy choice for me. I liked the Rachni Queen.
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PostSubject: Re: DA choices, possible spoilers   Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:41 pm

I did end up saving her, but in doing so, you might condemn the future generations if the Rachni decide to become an army again.

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PostSubject: Re: DA choices, possible spoilers   Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:15 am

Yes, but by saving her, you gain valuble support against the Reapers. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have all of everything live and have to face a Rachni army later than lose the Rachni's support and have a better chance of losing.
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PostSubject: Re: DA choices, possible spoilers   Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:48 am

Yeah, but does the end always justifies the means? And b y saving the Rachni, you don't even know they will help you against the Reapers. It's not like you sign a contract or anything. And the Council did have a bad war with the Rachni. That's what propelled the use of the krogans. Then too, they were trying to win... Wink

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PostSubject: Re: DA choices, possible spoilers   Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:48 am

Well, if I remember correctly, in Mass Effect 2, the Rachni Queen does pledge her support to you through some other woman you meet on Illium.
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PostSubject: Re: DA choices, possible spoilers   Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:33 pm

But after the fact, if I remember correctly. Hence, the indecision before taking the decision to let her live.

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PostSubject: Re: DA choices, possible spoilers   Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:29 am

Ah, that's true.

As for Mass Effect 2, I just finished it today, and, wow. First off, I loved the Legion loyalty mission, and the choice you make there. I chose to save and convert the heretics, thinking they might be good for the Reaper invasion. As for the ending... Wow. The final boss seemed a bit irrevelant to me, but I still loved the ending. It all felt very epic. I managed to get No One Left Behind, even though Jack was disloyal Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: DA choices, possible spoilers   Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:10 am

dragoniguana wrote:
Well, if I remember correctly, in Mass Effect 2, the Rachni Queen does pledge her support to you through some other woman you meet on Illium.

I just got finished playing Mass Effect 3. Has anyone here played it? Maybe I'll make a thread to discuss my feelings about it.

I loved DA:O and the choices it offered. I've played through it several times, and was never able to bring myself to turn against the Dalish. I finally did it on my last playthrough, with the result that I had werewolves fighting for me in the battle for Denerim. And boy were they tough. I used them throughout the entire battle, and I think I only lost one. They owned.

Unfortunately, your choices in DA:O don't have much effect on DAII, and a couple possible choices in the first game are deliberately ignored in the second.
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PostSubject: Re: DA choices, possible spoilers   Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:06 am

Just got my Mass Effect 3 N7 Collector's Edition today. Liking it so far, though I think I prefer the combat from Mass Effect 2. Also, I romanced Liara in the first game and Tali in the second, and I chose Tali, and I had to break Liara's heart... That actually made me feel like a jerk.
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PostSubject: Re: DA choices, possible spoilers   Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:35 am

huh. I didn't know you could have the werewolves. I chose to help Whitefang and turn against the keeper (which, with Mana Clash, is pretty much a non-battle). But I release them all from their curse, which I though was the right thing to do.
Well, I didn't really use the fighting squads in Denerim. The only time I use them is against the Archdemon to keep the darkspawn that pop up busy while I take on the boss.

On ME, I romanced Ashley (which I saved later in the game). On ME 2, she was giving me some attitude because the character is with Cerebus. I thought we were broken up so I hooked up with Miranda. I didn't feel like a jerk. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: DA choices, possible spoilers   Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:32 am

Haha, nice xD I saved Kaidan. Wish I had romanced Ashley in the first game, let her die, then Tali in the second and on. Woulda made it a lot better.

As for Mass Effect 3, I'm getting through it. Incredible so far. The shooting just felt wrong for me at first; I think that was mostly the UI (which I still don't like), but now I'm coming to see its awesomeness.
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