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 Pillars of Eternity

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Carabas
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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:39 pm

Some people just behave like entitled brats (regardless of their actual age).

From what I've read and judging by Divinity Original Sin's success it seems that many players are still looking to play isometric games like the BG series so I expect that PoE will do well.

I'm glad Obsidian decided not to go for a full voice over. It's expensive and it doesn't bring much to a game IMO. I don't mind some voice acting when it makes a game more immersive but it brings many limitations. Not only does it limit you in the actual roleplaying (you end up building your character around the voice and not the other way around) but it also makes modding incredibly more difficult not only because of the need for talented voice actors but also because you can't touch a line in the dialogue without screaming mod alert...

I just hope Obsidian does a good job with balance and that they will find some use for stats. I've been playing Wasteland 2 and it's annoying to come to the conclusion that you can get away with dumping two stats (luck and charisma) that do not contribute that much to a character build. In fact not dumping at least one of these stats (luck) would make a character much less effective (unless you go for a support role and keep him or her out of combat).

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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:27 pm

During the Kickstarter there was a discussion on what we wanted in voice overs and I think we pretty much agreed for the BG style of Voice over for major characters and just text for minor ones. Also since Obsidian is a USA company if they use Standard American accent it will be boring even if the actors are good.

Combat and some of the graphics are getting a lot of criticism from the beta players. There is still work to be done before we get a polished game so I hope the devs make for a first quarter release.

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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:38 pm

I've seen some screenshots and it doesn't look that bad but I've read people complaining about graphics in Wasteland 2 and IMO some people are putting too much emphasis on eye candy.

I agree with you on the subject of accents. IMO it depends on the setting but the regular American accent can be a bit weird in a fantasy setting (just because it's not something we are used to). I like the way Dragon Age Origins used accents. It made sense in the logic of the game.

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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:44 pm

Because of my weird eyesight I stay out of the graphics description discussions. Obsidian used 2D as the basic graphics. The background is painted, some 3D effects where added. Then they added some 3D models which is what I think is causing the problem for people.

I am having some problems with contrast but that is normal for me.

As for the magic system I think I prefer it to the IE D&D system. I never cared for that system especially in the early stage of the games. Until we can actually play the game it is impossible IMO to fairly judge it. I doubt there will be any major changes but there will be tweaks as well as bug fixes.

I also get the the impression that the Backers who have been playing the Beta since it was released are those who consider themselves experts and some may be. I just wish that they could remember that one man's trash is another man's treasur

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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:35 pm

It's very true, especially when it comes to games. There is always room for subjectivity and taste.

The old D&D magic system wasn't straightforward and the only reason it was kept was because it was part of the pen and paper ruleset. I for one salute the fact that devs are using another system. I never thought that the D&D stuff (even 3E) worked that well for computer games anyway.

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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:19 am

After playing the TES games for so long I have to relearn a lot. Gadzooks I hope they make a good tutorial. Several of posted that we couldn't figure out how to split items to spread them among party members. A dev posted that you left click to choose a stack and then right clicked to split it. We did point out that this was not intuitive and he said he would pass our comments on to the person in chare of the UI. I had tried all sorts of combos but hadn't thought of that one so had others.

There is an official WIKI but I haven't looked at it for fear of spoilers. Maybe I should take a quick glance. drunken

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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:40 am

Nakia the Rogue wrote:
Several of posted that we couldn't figure out how to split items to spread them among party members.  A dev posted that you left click to choose a stack and then right clicked to split it.  We did point out that this was not intuitive and he said he would pass our comments on to the person in chare of the UI.  I had tried all sorts of combos but hadn't thought of that one so had others.

It doesn't sound very intuitive indeed. Usually shift and click would do the trick.

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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:36 am

I checked the WIKI not much there it may be official but it is being made by the community. I do hope they have a good tutorial. Did I mention that before/ Probably. I picked up a scroll but haven't figured out how to add it to the Grimora. It may be too advanced it needs a lore of 9.

Since I had generic party of fighter, rogue, priest, wizard I decided on a Pallidin, female one of the new races which I can't spell. The largest one with funny growths out of the head. I do not normally play Palladins.

Oh I gave the scroll to the wizard. I am cheating with the beta and using it mainly to lern how the game works. It is entertaining and fun to see the similarities
to the IE games and the differences.

I have my fingers crossed that they will be able to release this game in the first quarter of 2015

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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:19 pm

I have played the Backer Beta for 27 hours now and over all I am very happy with what they have done. Dialogue is very good and the little Voice overs are good except that I hope they use other accents than Standard Ammerican which is very boring. So far the only two things I am unhappy with are the Combat log and the Journal. Quests completed get greyed out but stay in the journal. Others have brought up these two issues so hopefully they will improve them.

I like the spell casting much, much better than the IE spell casting. I am getting better at combat and don't have the complaints that some of the "expert" players have. They seem to feel that it is too easy to cheat. I am no expert on the mechanics of combat but I think that any system is cheatable. Also all the casual player wants is to win and it can get very frustrating if your party is constantly dieing.

If Obsidian can release this game reasonably bug free I do believe we will have a inner here.

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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:13 pm

Sounds very promising Nakia.

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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:48 pm

Indeed. 27 hours is a pretty decent playing time when it comes to properly testing a game. Dialogue was a bit of a let down in Divinity Original Sin so I'm glad Obsidian got it right with this game.


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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:05 pm

People are complaining about things but I personally think it is a lot nit-picking. There are six races, Three standard ones, Human, Elf and dwarf, three new ones; Orlan who are small with very large pointe ears and make good rouges (shades of the halflings?) One I haven't learned to spell yet, the largest of the races and have their origins in the coastal and island areas, and the godlike ones with strange heads a mutant race. classes are Paladins, fighters rogues, druids, priests, wizards and two new ones, ciphers who have psychic powers controlling the minds of others, Chanters much like bards. Think I got them all not sure. Then the location they come from has some effect on them. Then whether they are aristocrat, slave, adventurer, drifter, explorer and what not also change the character some. Skills galore, The variety of character you can amke seem endless to me.

I will probably spend hours just creating different characters. There will be eight companions you will find as you travel around and when you hire an adventurer at an inn you create what you want.

My main concern is what they do with the voice overs.

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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:21 pm

That thing about different characters sounds pretty good to me. That's one feature most games lack nowadays and it makes playing through games a second or third time much more satisfying.


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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:43 pm

I agree. I had room for an extra adventurer so I made a godlike firehead with the big body race then I made him a barbarian but I think I messed up his stats as he has been knocked down the most. But I think once we get the game I will have a lot of fun making characters and seeing which ones owrk. I want to try making a battlemage/wizard. Some posted asking for a similar class and I think it can already be made. In fact think the multiple choices may be confusing people. One thing I think I did learn from the TES games was making characters and PoE looks to me to have a loooooooooot more variety possible.

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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:08 pm

I like when you have many viable options to get a build that works. Most recent games don't allow much variety and we don't get many different builds so any class ends up being played in one very specific way (that's what I dislike about Dragon Age Inquisition, in Dragon Age Origins you could make odd builds that worked very nicely like my high strength Rogue). Other games have balance issues that penalize you for straying from the path (investing in Luck in Wasteland 2 is almost pointless and a sure way to make a character less effective).

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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:07 am

I missed the druid class. and the ranger. There is just so much just with the Backer Beta it will take me hours to learn it. There are things in the game I have mixed feelings about but until we get the actual game it is hard for me to make a valid judgement. The background you choose adds to to one and sometimes two of your aptitudes. I'm going out on a limb here and saying that I think there is a good possibility that this game will be better than the Baldurs Gate game. Time will tell. Maybe not as unique as I found Planescape/Torment though. I consider that a stand alone game at least in my experience.

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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:20 am

Baldur's Gate was incredible because it was the first of its kind. It looked great (and still does with a mod scaling it to modern screen resolutions) and it had a great story (about the evil within and not the evil without) and it also introduced some interesting mechanics (an isometric game with real time fighting that allowed the player to pause the game at any time to issue orders may sound simple but it was released at a time when the first Diablo was still fresh).

In my opinion the one thing that held BG back was the reliance on the clunky and counter intuitive D&D rules (seriously the whole thing about memorizing spells didn't make sense and what about clerics being unable to use bladed weapons that was just preposterous). With hindsight the only good thing was the fact that the Forgotten Realms lore and the basis of the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 2nd edition were popular enough to get the game some brand recognition among pen and paper players.

If anything the SPECIAL system (used in the original Fallout, Arcanum and Lionheart) which was based on GURPS (another pen and paper ruleset) was incredibly better (and it still shows today even if it has been dumbed down in modern iterations like Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas).

From what you've posted Nakia it looks like they got that part right and that's a relief.

I'm a bit on the fence regarding the weird races that can be played but considering that elves, dwarves and halflings have lost whatever magic they had a long time ago it may be nice to get some sort of strangeness that way. As long as the game provides enough information for the player character to be roleplayed... For instance I like the Qunaris in Dragon Age and the idea of playing one in Inquisition is awesome but I feel that I need some sort of background to play one. Having the Sten as a party member and reading up everything I could find on them both in the game and online may be just enough as far as I'm concerned. Otherwise it's too easy to play some sort of caricature or in other words just a human with a non human mask.

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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:00 pm

Cara, you are right about the D&D games. I had some knowledge of the Forgotten Realms and PnP game. So I felt comfortable with BG except the spell system. Hated that> As for PoE and its races, I have really taken to the Godlike folk. They can be from any race, it is their head that distinguishes them. The Human and Elves disappoint me. Very little in appearance to distinguish them. Orlans with their ears are distinctive. What I am finding interesting is the builds you can make. Race, location origin, background, then classes. Oh dwarfs just look like dwarfs.

Well time will tell how good Obsidian has done. People on Steam are complaing because XP is linked to quests. Skills get bonuses as you use them and improve which I find natural but leveling up has become so important to people that they feel deprived. One reason Obsidian did this was so they could have two paths, one non-combat and one combat. You can mix the two together which I have been doing. Combat does have a BG feel to it for me but as I said the "experts" are complaining. In my current play my party just got killed off by some bandits that I easily defeated last time. ???

Priests and wizards can use all types of weapons and wear armour.

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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:30 pm

The steam forums are plagued by people who are obsessed with beating games... The problem with that mindset is that levels are (almost) pointless in a single player game. They are only relative and when you're the only one playing you don't have to worry about getting behind.

I miss games that allow players to complete them without resorting to violence. I finished Fallout 1 with a level 8 non violent guy and Fallout 2 with a level 15 (iirc). I know full well that I would have gone well past level 20 in both games with a more violent approach but I still remember these playthroughs with a certain fondness.

Focusing on a character's specific background during the creation is a great way to add some personality to any given character and it's all the more viable when the game associates roleplaying choices with game mechanics. It's a great way to get the player to relate to the character. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:38 am

If the Backer Beta is a fair sample of how the game will go it should be really great at least for you and me.   One minor incident gave me a real chukle.  My party meandered into a dungeon room with a hostile sentry.  He turned and fled into another romm my party followed him.  There was another sentry there.  He had gone for help. Smile

Background does have at least some importance besides a bonus to some attribute or skill.  I made a Palidin  who had been a slave.  In one quest to find a noble lady it changed the dialogue and I decided to side with the "antagonist".  It just felt right.  Although if I had done the quest a little differently I might not have.

This is also the first game where I don't mind playing a Paladin.  They don't need to be played as goody two shoes.

There are bugs, missing strings, spells or abilities that don' work right.  If they can fix that and hopefully do a little balancing the game should be good.

Added: It does bother me a little that none of the villagers comment on the fact you kill one of the village shop keepers but I suppose you can justify that by their knowing full well what lyres beneath their little town.

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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:14 pm

Nothing is perfect but some things can be fixed (and hopefully they will).

Paladins were originally high ranking knights in the court of Charlemagne. They became heroes of legend through literature and song. The Song of Roland (Charlemagne's brave knight armed with his sword Durandal which wouldn't break fighting the Saracens at the battle of Roncevaux) is the most famous one (as usual fiction became much larger than the truth and glossed over the fact that both sides in the battle were composed of Christians).

The D&D trope is a mix between Charlemagne and the Knights of the Round Table and in the end it usually becomes quite a caricature so what you're saying sounds pretty interesting.

What I dislike is that most people go for an all or nothing approach when playing a Paladin which can only turn that character into a zealot and a fanatic (a bit like Keldorn in BG2). A "real" paladin would live by Obi Wan's words in Revenge of the Sith, i.e. "only a sith deals in absolutes" all you have to do is replace the word sith by the appropriate equivalent relevant to the setting. In this light not only does a Paladin becomes a character that can be played but it also becomes a character that can be looked up to and more importantly a true heroic figure who cares more about Good than abiding the Law.

The D&D focus on Lawful rather than Good is the reason why Paladins in this setting can become complete pricks really fast. The Good Evil axis is taken for granted (I'm good because it says so on my character sheet) whereas the Lawful Chaotic one is the subject of all attentions. As a result things are completely blurred when a Lawful Good character has to operate within a society in which laws enforce things that are opposed to his or her ethos (say slavery, corruption, usury for instance). There is a huge difference between keeping your word (true for every lawful character) and being unable to lie (lawful evil characters will twist their words though) but there is no denying that a Paladin should first try and reform an "evil" character instead of going for a killing spree.

Going back to Star Wars this is what sets Anakin down his path after he kills the raiders and their families in their village... In a BG setting a Paladin can cast Detect Evil and kill an entire village of Xvarts without any qualms and without any consequences. That's something I would never allow if I was a Dungeon Master managing a pen and paper game but I'm probably in the minority.

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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:16 pm

Very interesting. It was the D&D depiction of Paladins ins that turned me off on them. I do not think that good and evil are black and white which is why I always played Nakia Nightshadow as chaotic good. She chose what she consider ed good rather than what society or the rules said was good. She never stole from family, friends or comrades but if she considered someone evil they were fair game.

In the quest if my character had been an aristocrat the outcome would have been different but as an ex-slave she chose to pit evil against evil. The only other choice would have been to go a killing spree herself. This is also what gives me real hope for this game. This looks to be a real role playing game instead of the watered down stuff we get now i.e. the TES games. Much as I like the ambiguity in those games your character can be a holy pilgrim and also a Dak Brother killing for pay. There is no conflict, no need for choice. I am sure that many will play ignoring their character's background but I see it as important. An aristocrat and a slave would not react the same way in certain situation although they might be in other ways almost identical.

Magic in PoE is based on the soul, it is drawn or fueled by the soul of the individual. It is a tool which in itself is neither good or evil (as far as I can tell). It is how the individual uses it that counts.

Have I mentioned that you can add your own portraits to the game?

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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:12 pm

It's always a good thing. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:13 am

Thursday there may be an update of the Backer Beta. When it is released I will take another run threw. J. Sawyer is taking a loook at combat so hopefully that will be improved. Load/save issue has been fixed.

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PostSubject: Re: Pillars of Eternity   Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:01 am

Obsidian is having problems with the latest build and it looks as if the Backer Beta won't be out until after Christmas.

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