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 Civilizations IV

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PostSubject: Civilizations IV   Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:41 pm

Here is a thread just for Civ 4, since Civ 5 is too rotten... Smile

As I said before in the general discussion forum, I started a game with the romans (Augustus). Right now, I'm screwed because the Zulu popped up with a stack of 2 Swordsmen and 3 Impi units. I was so used to playing Civ 5 (and the cities that can defend themselves and archers that are Über powerful since they can strike a couple squares away). My army is not positioned correctly. I think the only way to get out of it is to repositioned my army via the previous auto save... :/

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PostSubject: Re: Civilizations IV   Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:42 pm

Civ 5 is not rotten it's just a different game (less micro and taking cities can be a pain). Smile

You're sure that you can't fend off 2 swordsmen and 3 Impi guys? Depending on the city a few archers could do the job. No catapults so it means suicide for the Zulu army. Worst case scenario you can take the city back...

But I know exactly what you mean about getting bad habits from playing Civ 5 (a city that defends itself and a few archers are enough to make sure you can defend your territory especially with a Citadel placed at a choke point).

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PostSubject: Re: Civilizations IV   Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:45 pm

I probably can, but I only have 1 archer in the city they're trying to claim. With 5 units, they'll eliminate him eventually. And that's only what they popped up in my territory with. Who knows what else they have in store. But anyways, like I said, I had a friend coming over, so I didn't have time to check what was happening and gage how I could get out of it. But I will see. My saving grace is that I have a couple of cities that have nothing better to do than spouting military units (will take up to 10 turns, though, even if it's for the top of the line unit).

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PostSubject: Re: Civilizations IV   Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:38 pm

You're a marathon player? It makes a huge difference when it comes to warmongering. I like slow games myself.

One Archer is not going to cut it. Since the zulus don't have catapults two Archers may have been able to fend off attackers (provided they have the right promotions). You could probably retake your city but it would mean losing some buildings (it's a pain).

I assume slavery is not an option or you could rush out some reinforcements?

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PostSubject: Re: Civilizations IV   Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:54 am

Yes, marathon on huge map.... That's my kind of game... Smile

Yeah, I know. That's why I don't want to lose my city. Specially since they're more or less 5 of them in a straight line. That city is in the middle. That would cut off my supply line and screw up my stuff... Sad

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PostSubject: Re: Civilizations IV   Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:28 am

Mine too, the only reason I've switched to large is because my computer has a hard time handling the huge size in the late game. Smile

If you don't have more than one Archer in your garrison then you can't expect to hold that line. A Longbow would have a chance but a regular Archer would have to be extremely lucky in order to make it (especially considering this is a border city with presumably low culture).

Reload if you don't want to deal with the frustration. IMHO you need more defensive units in border cities. Of course this won't necessarily do much good if you have other real warmongers on the map (once I had Ragnar coming at me with a stack of twenty Cavalry units on a big Earth map).

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PostSubject: Re: Civilizations IV   Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:14 pm

I went to sleep at a friend's house close to work last night, but before she came to pick me up, I played a bit at my game. Yeah, I was definitely rusty at strategic warfare. In Civ 5, units are waaaay too strong (plus they retreat when wounded... that's better than Civ 4 where they fight to the death). I also find that in Civ 5, cities are easy to defend, but also easy to take. I guess it's all about the enemy A.I. that was atrocious. If you attacked with two melee units along with two catapults or artilleries, the city was basically yours. 

So yeah, basically, the war between the zulu and me is like this : at the start of the war (in the war zone), I had 6 archers, 3 axemen and 4 praetorians. The zulu had 4 archers, 5 axemen, 5 impi and 5 swordsmen. In the initial clash, I lost 3 archers and 1 city, they lost 3 sworsmen and 4 impi. I retook the city in the following turn. In the meantime, we both spouted units (I built a lot of archers and a few praetorians), but I noticed I had very poor success probability by attacking, so I started fighting a defensive war, hoping his units would be destroyed in attacking me (he tried to take that city again, but that time, I was able to tough it out, though I lost an axeman. All the while, I sent 1 unit of axemen to harass their territory : I destroyed 1 farm and 3 or 4 mines. That should cripple their production a bit. After 5 or 7 turns or so of warfare, he was inclined to talk, and I checked what he we would accept for peace, but didn't accept to give back anything. I had to stop playing there, but I mean to continue to push it to get him to include one of his town in the peace deal (I hope). If not, then I'll settle just for peace (while I lick my wounds and built a bad ass army).

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PostSubject: Re: Civilizations IV   Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:37 pm

This sounds rather fun. I think you may have acquired some bad habits playing Civ 5 (especially since vanilla Civ 5 is pretty bad, the expansion really improves things). 

The randomness of combat in Civ 4 can make the issue slightly unpredictable so having more units than your opponent (and better units if possible) is the best way to make sure things will go your way.

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PostSubject: Re: Civilizations IV   Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:00 pm

Yeah, I know. In my previous Civ 4 games, I would amass a few stacks of units (at least 4 melee and 1 catapult) when I wanted to attack enemy cities. I remember having a tremendous success with the aviation science in the latter part of the game. Being able to instantely move units between two cities with airports, where ever in the world was pretty solid. In one game, I had a big continent all to myself with cities producing tanks every 2 oe 3 turns. I would then transport them immediately onto the other continent where I was waging war. (Also, in that game, my relationship rating with the spanish was so high  that even when I was conquering the spannish, with about half of their cities taken, their attitudes towards me was still listed as "friendly". Isabelle would still greet me with "Ah, hello my good friend" when I initiated diplomacy talks... Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Civilizations IV   Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:24 pm

I've never had that. It must have been hilarious. Smile

One of my greatest moments playing Civ 4 was when I got a Diplomatic victory playing Montezuma on the earth map. As strange as it may sound everybody loved Monty in this game. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Civilizations IV   Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:35 pm

Haha, yeah, I usually don't like Montezuma myself... Laughing

My greatest battle ever was not in Civ, but it was in Imperialism (a favorite game of mine in the late 90's/early 2000's. It had the best economy simulation and hasn't been surpassed yet in that respect). Anyways, I was attacking a rival's capital. The battle simulation was a 2D hex map, a LOT like battle maps in Heroes III. On was coming up on one end with late 1800's grenadiers and infantry (maybe 60 units) along with 10 canon units. The garrison had about the same thing, albeit about half the number of canons, but more infantry. But being on a palisade, they could shoot a whole lot farther out, so even with my units immediately outside their firing range, I couldn't fire on them. I would have to close and lose a lot of units. I didn't want to suffer the loss, so I started evacuating my units out of the battle map. When I had just my canons still on the map (being slower to move than my units on foot), the strangest thing happened. They opened their gates and their canons started to follow me, hoping to chase me out, maybe mauling my retreat. Only.... I had just upgraded my canons and they had more range than a regular canon. I noticed that I could fire on theirs while still being out of their range. I started to pound like crazy on their artillery. Very soon, they only had foot soldiers. So my canon starting going forward again, blasting everything away because I could fire on them a lot sooner than they could. 

End result : I captured the capital with basically ten canon units with no losses. They lost 68 units out of 70, the other two were wounded retreats... LOL

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PostSubject: Re: Civilizations IV   Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:25 pm

It must have been epic!

I know you're not interested in fantasy mods for Civ 4 but this is one of the reasons why I love Fall From Heaven 2 and the Orbis mod. I had my most fantastic battles with these mods. When you're fighting hordes of angels and demons it tends to take things up a notch. Simply put I had to rethink my definition of stack of death. Wink

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