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 Crusaders Kings 2

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Carabas
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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:21 pm

Except that Owain's wife may hold a grudge if he gets a divorce. I agree that the assassination can have really bad consequences if you are exposed.

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That's what I was afraid of. I was under the impression that once you push a claim of a landed vassal or a family member, the territory, even if you're not the liege, falls into your lap. I thought the same was applicable to inheritance (i.e. when my nephew inherits the duchy of York.

Not sure I follow but as far as I know you won't benefit from pushing a relative's claim if he or she is not already your vassal (and you also have to be of a higher rank of course).

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But a lot can change in a short while

That's certainly the truth.  Smile 

I think you've done pretty well with this game. It should only be a matter of time before you get your own imperial crown.  king 

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:59 pm

Carabas wrote:
Not sure I follow but as far as I know you won't benefit from pushing a relative's claim if he or she is not already your vassal (and you also have to be of a higher rank of course).

Here's off the CK2 wiki about pushing claims : "They'll only be your vassal if they are already your vassal, they're in your dynasty, or the claim you pushed was for an area that is de jure part of your realm."

Here's where I'm confused : if you push your kinsman's claim on a county or duchy, do he/she have to be landed beforehand? If you don't grant you kinsman a county and you push his claim on a county or duchy from another kingdom, does that title fall into your territory or does the kinsman become another vassal of the other kingdom? The quote off the CK2 wiki seems to say that your dynasty members will be loyal, unless it's a title equal or higher than your own (push their claim on a kingdom while you're a king).

And further, I was thinking that inheritance worked the same way. If you have a dynasty member or kinsman that inherits a county or duchy in another kingdom, they automatically become your vassal and you gain that land.

Hence why I thought that by marrying my brother to the duchess of York, when they die, their son, part of my dynasty, would make York fall into my Kingdom rather than be a vassal to the English crown.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:57 pm

Unless I'm mistaken it won't work because in that case York is part of the kingdom of England, if it had been part of the kingdom of Wales your nephew would have become your vassal (sorry I wasn't more precise before).

It is confusing... What you're quoting would suggest otherwise. I don't think it has been patched. You're not playing ironman so you can check it out.

To be on the safe side when in doubt I give the relative a barony (if possible) and then press his claim.

Quote :
And further, I was thinking that inheritance worked the same way. If you have a dynasty member or kinsman that inherits a county or duchy in another kingdom, they automatically become your vassal and you gain that land.

That is not the case (unless I'm seriously mistaken). I've had dynasty members spread all over Europe without being my vassals. I even had a game in which the Pope was of my dynasty.

It's not very clear and I'm not sure I'm making much sense.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:12 pm

Haha, I'm not making much sense either. CK2 can be rather confusing at times. But I think you're right, unfortunately... Sad

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:46 pm

Don't feel bad. I'm pretty sure things will work out. You just have to be extra careful with family members who have a claim on your titles.

Right now your goal should be to take enough land so that you can become an emperor. Getting the crowns of England and Scotland could help hasten the process but what you really don't want is some continental power getting a foothold in Britain.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:31 pm

I agree, but the amount of British land I need to become emperor is kind of intense. I presently have around 20 British counties, and I need another 34 to have the 80% prerequisite. I'm quite stumped on how to attain my goal in the least amount of time and in the easiest way...

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:14 am

That's the trick. You need to seize every opportunity. I wouldn't recommend breaking truces though. You lose your prestige but more importantly everyone will end up hating you.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:25 am

Truces are the bane of my existence sometimes. "Oh, here, I have a casus belli and if I grab this piece of land I can form this kingdo- oh wait I have a truce with the guy", and then you end up dying and losing your claim and it's just a big mess. Blugh.
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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:55 am

In my last game I've broken truces for this very reason. My score suffered a lot (I mean a lot) and people started to really hate my guy but it made the difference between becoming emperor of Britannia and losing kingdoms because of gavelkind (don't make the same mistake of creating several higher rank titles if you're running this succession system).

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:13 am

Legitimate question: Why use gavelkind? Is there any advantage to it besides a small-ish opinion boost?
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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:39 am

A much bigger demesne and no significant drawback if you can manage your succession. With gavelkind your guy usually ends up having the largest demesne in the entire world (except maybe for some Indian dudes who get a bonus but in my game they're not even close). A much bigger demesne mean that you can field many soldiers with just your own levies and your retinues. You only need your vassals when facing a blob like the HRE.

The only drawback is the risk of losing territory when your ruler dies but unless you're sheer out of luck you can take back what you want. I like when my heir and his siblings are a few years apart so when the heir inherits the second son is unmarried and if he dies all his land goes to my current ruler. If all fails taking away a title is not such a big deal. The important thing is either to keep the other sons unmarried or to marry them to some older women.

I used to favour elective but it's a real pain when you're unpopular especially when your dukes are being dicks even more so if they are from your dynasty. When you're running gavelkind you don't mind a little tyranny because you know you have more counties than anyone else. It's all about keeping yourself stronger than the rest and the only tricky part is taking back some land when you inherit (and that's when retinues are a big help).

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:22 pm

I don't know. I like Primogeniture the best. It's just simpler and the only drawback, aside from a smaller demesne than gravelkind, is a relationship hit with the other children except the eldest. Why waste time running after your fractured realm after each succession? It's less of a headache to keep everything intact, IMO. As for a smaller demesne, in my current game in the UK, it was never a problem. I've never had a problem with the demesne size, actually. I often go over of 1 or 2. The relationship hit is manageable.

I've found the best idea when starting out as a count is to boot your mayor and bishop. The relationship hit you take is with your vassals, so by booting both your vassals, it's basically free. And early on, the bigger levy can prevent you from having to hire mercenaries to take your first province or two as well as be an opportunity to invite a claimant to a nearby county and land him before pushing his claim.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:28 pm

Yeah, I typically go with Primogeniture just because it's simple. I have a lot to worry about; I certainly don't need to worry about who gets what land in succession on top of that.
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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:47 pm

I don't like going over the limit unless I really have to and I don't like banishing vassals at the start of the game (I feel it breaks immersion but that's just me).

Quote :
Why waste time running after your fractured realm after each succession? It's less of a headache to keep everything intact

I've found out that it's not a problem if you have a higher level title. With one high level title your siblings are your vassals so there is no headache involved. What you don't want is to have two titles of the same rank but as long as you have a higher level title the realm is never fractured.

A picture is worth a thousand words so:

Spoiler:
 

A size 12 demesne (without going over the limit) is something to be considered. In this particular case all my guy needs is to get a son (his wife and his concubine have the Genius trait just like he does).

I'm not a fan of primogeniture. If your first son sucks or becomes a heretic it's a pain to deal with him especially if he is married.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:53 pm

Yeah, but if it's gravelkind, you're still stuck playing your eldest son, so he sucks AND he has less titles. and power. In my game, I have the three counties of Deheubarth. I micromanage them and am building them up to make them powerhouses (though it will take a while for me to achieve that. If I had gravelkind, my son probably would have lost one of them. It's all well and good that the sibling can be a vassal since the heir-now-ruler has a higher title, but the county is now not of direct control. You can revoke the title, but it incurs a hit with all your other vassals. I just don't see how important gravelkind is (and concerning your screenshot, only 2 of the 12 demesne is attributable to gravelkind. If you're over the limit by 2, it incurs a -10 relationship hit to your vassals. I think this is more manageable than the cons of gravelkind).

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:31 pm

It's not as strict as primogeniture. That's pretty much the entire point.

I don't even have to revoke the title (that's a last case scenario) all I have to do is kill the underage sibling (before he or she gets of age) to get back all the titles. It's definitely not that big a deal.

Quote :
I just don't see how important gravelkind is (and concerning your screenshot, only 2 of the 12 demesne is attributable to gravelkind. If you're over the limit by 2, it incurs a -10 relationship hit to your vassals. I think this is more manageable than the cons of gravelkind).

And my guy could go up to a size 14 demesne and still get the opinion bonus from gavelkind...

Besides expanding really fast it's not a problem as long as I keep the core of my realm (say 4 counties) I can pick up whatever I want to get my demesne back to the limit. So as long as you expand (and there is no reason not to) it is fine to run this succession law.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:18 pm

I tutored my friend in CK2 during my vacation. There was a weird bug, though. He had a city as a demesne holding. Gave it to a courtier to land him, then pushed his new vassal's claim towards another county. But the vassal became independent, with the city in his demesne, so no longer under the control of my friend's character. I know I'm not putting up many details, but am I forgetting something really obvious? Is it a bug?

I also saw your post about the Charlemagne DLC. Oh boy! a few features like the "Chronicle" will be interesting to see. I've also heard there might be a Vassal cap, meaning after a set number of vassals, there would be a penalty (much in the same way the the demesne limit). It would be to encourage players to delegate duchies and kingdoms.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:02 pm

I don't think it's a bug. Playing as a lord you can't hold a city or a temple so if you give other titles to a mayor then you will set him up as a lord mayor (you also have prince bishops). I'm not sure that's what happened though. It looks like your guy was a mayor who then switched back to being a count. My idea is that you wouldn't have such a problem with a baron since he would be your feudal vassal (city vassals don't play by the same rules).

I'm still learning so I'm not 100% sure about some specific cases. I've found an exploit with an emperor level lord going nuts and banishing subjects left and right before accepting to be deposed in favour of his heir so as a result the new emperor has a huge number of titles to give away. It's too cheesy because the only thing that is lost in the process is the crown authority and being able to get rid of powerful vassals and replacing them by hand picked courtiers makes the entire thing too easy.

I'm really looking forward to this DLC as I find the new features really interesting. The game can be really punishing and very static once you're facing some big empires. In my current game I may have Britannia but Francia has swallowed the HRE and the Byzantine empire has taken over the entire Holy Land and there isn't much I can do except killing their rulers and picking out independent realms... Especially since being on an island it's a pain to gather troops and ferry them across the Channel.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:16 pm

Hey Cara, have you played as the vikings with the Old Gods DLC? I don't have it, unfortunately and there are no longer any sales on the DLC... Sad  I've just started watching the Vikings TV series and it put me in the mood to pillage Europe...

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:05 pm

Actually my current game started as a Viking chief in Nantes in 867. It's a lot of fun and you should definitely keep an eye out for the next sale. Do you have the DLC collection? It's definitely worth it for all the extra stuff you get to use (if you don't I have extra copies of the Norse, African and Russian unit packs if you want them).

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:02 pm

I don't have the updated DLC collection. When I originally bought Crusader Kings II, it was with the DLC collection up to The Republic DLC. So I don't have The Old Gods, Sons of Abraham and Rajas of India and their smaller packages (portraits, music, units, ect).

Thanks for the offer, but when the DLC will be on sale, the little packages will undoubtedly be on sale as a package.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:05 pm

I wouldn't count on that... They haven't bundled the other DLC yet. I'll keep you posted if I see a good deal for the Old Gods and Sons of Abraham (these are more important IMHO). I really don't have any use for the extra copy of the Norse units DLC so it's yours if you want it.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:55 am

It's been a while since I last posted here and things have changed quite a bit thanks to Charlemagne and now Way of Life. The game is now more difficult but also more interesting. Not having an assassination button means that you have to pick and choose the plot you're going to focus on.

The different ways of life that you can pick also make a huge difference. Having to focus on religion to be able to go on a pilgrimage makes sense and the reworking of ambitions into this system feels less like a game feature that you can exploit but an intricate part of the game.

I don't really know what to think of the earlier start date though. It makes for a slower paced game early on and you don't have to contend with the Holy Roman Empire right away (if ever) but the Umayyad and early Abbasid caliphates are serious contenders (even more so than at later dates). It may be historically correct but it makes starting off near them a risky business.

In my current game in Spain I've been lucky enough to avoid being conquered but I know for a fact that military wise there is absolutely nothing I could do to fend them off.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:56 am

I've played a little more and after a number of misadventures and close calls my current count inherited two crowns from his mother. The fact that he is a lunatic obsessed with religion makes him a rather colourful character.

The fact that his late father was a philanderer and murderer who had an affair with his wife is rather unsavory. My guy rebelled and was beaten down and thrown to jail before ever becoming a count. His mother paid his father a ransom and later on he won a duel against his own father...

His first actions as a count were to get a divorce, force his former wife to become a nun, ask the hand of a princess in marriage and then he went on a pilgrimage to Rome while his dwarf bastard brother who had been legitimized went to steal the secrets of the Saracens (and got caught which was rather fortunate since it removed him from the list of pretenders).

Anyway now I control 4 counties, one duchy and two kingdoms Galicia and Asturias. All I have to do is make sure I can hold to them and possibly get more territories.

There is a crusade for Aquitaine and I've managed to get hold of a holy order (unfortunately I wasn't quick enough to grab more) which I'm going to use in order to score some points.

EDIT: I did expect some weirdness with the new patch but there is currently a bug that prevents levies from being dismissed... Pretty embarrassing... I guess I'll wait for the next hotfix to continue my game.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:42 pm

hahaha, your story sounds like a tv show (dwarf legitimized bastard brother stealing secrets and getting caught... Laughing ). Sounds like you have your hands full. Smile Though I hope that patch won't be too long in coming. :/

I realized something in my game. As I'm playing the vikings in the 800's start, the succession law is elective gravelkind. I was planning on dumping pretty much everything on my heir once my character got to 60 years old, just to prevent a succession war. Seems like the game anticipated this: the game already identifies who inherits what and you can't grant a title to your heir that is already "promised" to your other children. Smart of the game. Also means I will be heading in a big succession war as I have 10 children (from 7 different mothers... Laughing). And none of my children are clear choices for my next character. One of them has 15 in martial, but few elsewhere. Another has 19 in diplomacy, but 0 in martial. Meh, we'll see. And as it's elective and I have 11 or 12 vassals, the choice isn't so much in my hands.

I'm also unsure what to do with my duchy titles. I've just formed the kingdom of Norway. I have four or five duchy titles. I hesitate giving them out to my children, because it will be that much harder to win back afterwards. What do you think I should do with them, Cara?

My next targets : I have a couple of swedish counties, so should I want to fight for more, I would be able to create a second scandanavian kingdom on my quest for the Empire. I already noticed a swedish jarl (or danish, not sure) that's a converted catholic. It means, as a norse pagan, I have an automatic cassus belli to grab his land. There is also Ireland that's ripe for the taking, it being all independant counties. And as there are a lot of small petty kingdoms in England and Scotland (most being catholic), I could very well make a play for the UK in order to actually make money (scandanavia was very poor and harsh at that point, that's one of the reason they started raiding in the first place).

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