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 Crusaders Kings 2

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Triactus
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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:54 pm

Yeah, I added my roommate on the provider account and since he's on work vacation and thus at home, he called the provider today to fix the problem... Yay! CK2 for me tonight! Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:01 pm

Cara, I opened the link you provided on the tutorials for CK2 for the first time. WOAH! That's a lot of video! I have very little patience to read manuals or watch tutorials. I usually play by trial and error and when I have a problem with a particular aspect of the game, I try to get help. If it would have been 5 min clips, I might have watched them, but 5 hours 32 min of tutorial is a little too much for me... Laughing I'm probably going to play for a bit and then check out the videos of the sections I don't master.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:56 pm

Triactus wrote:
I have very little patience to read manuals or watch tutorials. I usually play by trial and error and when I have a problem with a particular aspect of the game,

That's the spirit. That's how I play games especially TBS, after all shooters are way too easy nowadays. I endure 10s of defeats and in the end I win a lot Smile

What good will come from tutorials if you don't have a "feel" of a game Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:56 pm

Are you comparing CK2 to "shooters"?! Laughing 

Well, to each their own.

Quote :
I'm probably going to play for a bit and then check out the videos of the sections I don't master.

That's probably the best option. The videos are rather thorough and the player who made them tend to repeat himself at times (to be fair that's something that can't be avoided) so don't be afraid to fast forward to the parts you need to watch.

Some things are not very intuitive in this game but if you have specific questions I should be able to help.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:48 pm

So yeah, I installed it last night. I started playing for an hour/hour and a half, just to get a feel of the game, to click on what I can and figure out what does what. Wow, there is a lot of info packed in there... Laughing!  Afterwards, I went to your video link and watch the videos on the game mechanics, so to better understand some concepts (I had trouble with taxes and levies at first). I still have a few questions:

1) We can recruit wives and sons onto council roles. But can we recruit daughters-in-law? I had one and I received a message saying she arrived to the court, but she wasn't in the appointment choices. Matter-a-fact, what do I do if I have a councilor that has a better attribute in another role? For example, if my chancellor has a better intrigue rating than diplomacy, is there an easy (and not costly) to remove him from that position and appoint him as spymaster? I assume if I fire him from the chancellor position, he will resent me and even if I promote him to spymaster, it's not going to be enough to cancel that.

2) What's up with the maximum demesne number? I have 1/3. I understand that means I can control up to three counties without any overly chance of revolt, but what influences the maximum? Can it go up? Let's say I have a claim on three nearby counties. If I attack and conquer all three, I will be at 4/3, so there will be unrest? What if I create a duchy with two counties. Does that count as 1 or as 2? And if I decide to lower the said 4/3, what are my options? Only give land away? (which would prevent me from forming a duchy, if I don't exercise direct control over 50% of the counties, right?)

3) Once an army is locked in battle, can you change the army leader? I had a viking attacking my county. He was laying siege to my town, so I raised my levies. But instead of my military son commanding the army, it was a courtier... :/

4) Speaking of armies, how do you get them on boats? I saw the embark option, but it was grayed out. For example : I raised my personal levies (660 soldiers) and my vassal's navy levies (3 galleys). The embark option was grayed out and when I selected the army icon and tried to make it march on the galleys, there was a red "x" on it. I don't get it. My soldiers were in Dublin and my boats were near the pier, it seemed (both levies were raised in my county, anyways).  Is there a soldier/boat ratio you must respect? If so, what is the maximum soldiers I can embark in a boat?

5) Is there a "maximum" age? I know it's all random, but in Medieval Total Wars, your characters start dying once they reach 60 (they don't die at 60, it's just open season once they reach that age)

6) I had a sixth question, but I forgot. The only thing I remember is "oh, I really have to ask that one, it's important"... -_-

So I started my first game (a few of the previous questions were from that game). I view it as the first test drive. I'm going to make mistakes, so the game won't be perfect and I don't intend it to be.

So I started the same as the tutorial (seemed like an excellent starting point). I'm the earl of Dublin, my only county. My father is the earl of Leinster, the county just below mine, and as his heir, I stand to inherit it as soon as he die (and at 71, it won't be too long, I suppose). My overall goal is to unite Ireland. If that goes smoothly, maybe, what the hell, unite all of the UK... Smile(but I doubt I will reach that point). So my council pretty much don't overly like me (between 20 and 30 of opinion), except the bishop, which has an 85 opinion of me. It was also rather strange to have my wife as spymaster (overly attached girlfriend, anyone? how can a guy have an affair when his wife is the spymaster?). But I gave out a couple of honorary titles to boost few relationships. In the hope of creating the duchy of Meath, I am raising gold (I need 199). With my boosted relationships with my two vassals,  I get a fair amount every month, so I'm on track.

In the meantime, I married my son and heir to the daughter (2nd child) of the King of Gwynedd. I nabbed an ally at the same time. His new wife has a good stewardship attribute, so it might be passed down to his children.  My second son died of pneumonia at 15. That was a shame because it was growing up to have a few good attributes... :/   A viking chief raided Ireland's coast. After looting Ormond, he showed up in Dublin. Alas for him, I raised my personal levies and kicked his ass back to the cold north (with a courtier as the army leader, see question #3).

It got pretty quiet afterwards. Nothing happened much for a while, until my third son came of age. Unfortunately for me, he's a pious scholar. But that doesn't overly matter, since he's not the heir. But I did manage to marry him to a french princess (sister to the King of France) and once again, with 15 or 17 of stewardship (! and see question #1). Once again, nabbed another ally. As the same time, the son of my brother came of age as a pretty masterful spy. I quickly fired my wife out of the spymaster seat and appoint my nephew. I am considering assassinating my wife, because I am under the impression she will try to have my nephew's head come off.

In the meantime, the king of Gwynedd asked for my help in his war against the neighborhood county  of Perfeddwlad. I was only able to publicly assist him, as I was not able to send my soldiers over to Walles to aid him in his war (see question #4).

I was also concerned that my heir's wife was 30 ans still hadn't had a child, but both my heir and third son (married to the french princess) had a male child, so the succession is assured!

But opportunity knocked on the door. My chancellor was able to fabricate a claim to the Breifne county just north of mine. Levies raised, war declared, Dublin is coming... Smile

That is where I had to stop playing. I saved my game but I also just tried out how to attack another county, just to understand how it works. In that time, my army's ass got kicked, the king of Gwynedd was defeated and my wife had my nephew killed.... Laughing Looks like I wasn't too off the mark. I didn't intend to "cheat" by looking at the future, but I was only trying out stuff before signing off. I can't wait to reload and continue my game... Smile

Any comments are welcomed!

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:46 pm

Oh, a question just occurred to me. What is a just cause to imprison a character? Would knowing my wife had my nephew killed be a just cause? Is it possible to fabricate a just cause? (just like we can fabricate a claim to a county). Assassination can be costly, so imprisonment can be a good alternative to take a character out of the picture (at least no permanently).

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:22 pm

Another small comment : one thing I found I liked is the "events". I had an event popped where a mysterious person gave my patriarch a book and disappeared. My patriarch poured over the mysterious book to learn its secrets and gained the illuminated trait. After a while, he couldn't perceived its secrets, but did gain a love for books and got the Scholar trait. I like those little "adventures"... Smile I like when a game talks to me, especially a game like CK2 where nothing happens for a while.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:51 pm

Triactus wrote:
1) We can recruit wives and sons onto council roles. But can we recruit daughters-in-law? I had one and I received a message saying she arrived to the court, but she wasn't in the appointment choices. Matter-a-fact, what do I do if I have a councilor that has a better attribute in another role? For example, if my chancellor has a better intrigue rating than diplomacy, is there an easy (and not costly) to remove him from that position and appoint him as spymaster? I assume if I fire him from the chancellor position, he will resent me and even if I promote him to spymaster, it's not going to be enough to cancel that.

2) What's up with the maximum demesne number? I have 1/3. I understand that means I can control up to three counties without any overly chance of revolt, but what influences the maximum? Can it go up? Let's say I have a claim on three nearby counties. If I attack and conquer all three, I will be at 4/3, so there will be unrest? What if I create a duchy with two counties. Does that count as 1 or as 2? And if I decide to lower the said 4/3, what are my options? Only give land away? (which would prevent me from forming a duchy, if I don't exercise direct control over 50% of the counties, right?)

3) Once an army is locked in battle, can you change the army leader? I had a viking attacking my county. He was laying siege to my town, so I raised my levies. But instead of my military son commanding the army, it was a courtier... :/

4) Speaking of armies, how do you get them on boats? I saw the embark option, but it was grayed out. For example : I raised my personal levies (660 soldiers) and my vassal's navy levies (3 galleys). The embark option was grayed out and when I selected the army icon and tried to make it march on the galleys, there was a red "x" on it. I don't get it. My soldiers were in Dublin and my boats were near the pier, it seemed (both levies were raised in my county, anyways).  Is there a soldier/boat ratio you must respect? If so, what is the maximum soldiers I can embark in a boat?

5) Is there a "maximum" age? I know it's all random, but in Medieval Total Wars, your characters start dying once they reach 60 (they don't die at 60, it's just open season once they reach that age)

6) I had a sixth question, but I forgot. The only thing I remember is "oh, I really have to ask that one, it's important"... -_-

So I started my first game (a few of the previous questions were from that game). I view it as the first test drive. I'm going to make mistakes, so the game won't be perfect and I don't intend it to be.

So I started the same as the tutorial (seemed like an excellent starting point). I'm the earl of Dublin, my only county. My father is the earl of Leinster, the county just below mine, and as his heir, I stand to inherit it as soon as he die (and at 71, it won't be too long, I suppose). My overall goal is to unite Ireland. If that goes smoothly, maybe, what the hell, unite all of the UK... Smile(but I doubt I will reach that point). So my council pretty much don't overly like me (between 20 and 30 of opinion), except the bishop, which has an 85 opinion of me. It was also rather strange to have my wife as spymaster (overly attached girlfriend, anyone? how can a guy have an affair when his wife is the spymaster?). But I gave out a couple of honorary titles to boost few relationships. In the hope of creating the duchy of Meath, I am raising gold (I need 199). With my boosted relationships with my two vassals,  I get a fair amount every month, so I'm on track.

In the meantime, I married my son and heir to the daughter (2nd child) of the King of Gwynedd. I nabbed an ally at the same time. His new wife has a good stewardship attribute, so it might be passed down to his children.  My second son died of pneumonia at 15. That was a shame because it was growing up to have a few good attributes... :/   A viking chief raided Ireland's coast. After looting Ormond, he showed up in Dublin. Alas for him, I raised my personal levies and kicked his ass back to the cold north (with a courtier as the army leader, see question #3).

It got pretty quiet afterwards. Nothing happened much for a while, until my third son came of age. Unfortunately for me, he's a pious scholar. But that doesn't overly matter, since he's not the heir. But I did manage to marry him to a french princess (sister to the King of France) and once again, with 15 or 17 of stewardship (! and see question #1). Once again, nabbed another ally. As the same time, the son of my brother came of age as a pretty masterful spy. I quickly fired my wife out of the spymaster seat and appoint my nephew. I am considering assassinating my wife, because I am under the impression she will try to have my nephew's head come off.

In the meantime, the king of Gwynedd asked for my help in his war against the neighborhood county  of Perfeddwlad. I was only able to publicly assist him, as I was not able to send my soldiers over to Walles to aid him in his war (see question #4).

I was also concerned that my heir's wife was 30 ans still hadn't had a child, but both my heir and third son (married to the french princess) had a male child, so the succession is assured!

But opportunity knocked on the door. My chancellor was able to fabricate a claim to the Breifne county just north of mine. Levies raised, war declared, Dublin is coming... Smile

That is where I had to stop playing. I saved my game but I also just tried out how to attack another county, just to understand how it works. In that time, my army's ass got kicked, the king of Gwynedd was defeated and my wife had my nephew killed.... :lol:Looks like I wasn't too off the mark. I didn't intend to "cheat" by looking at the future, but I was only trying out stuff before signing off. I can't wait to reload and continue my game... Smile

Any comments are welcomed!

1) As far as I can tell you can't get women (other than your wife) in your council and I wouldn't advise you to use your wife (you can try it and see how the figures evolve) because the main point in having an advisor is to get a bonus to that particular stat (something your wife is already doing).

As for switching characters it shouldn't be a problem, you will take a hit but you will get a bonus (extra bonus if the character's ambition is to become chancellor/marshal/etc and you switch him to that role).

You can always give some money to that character to boost your relationship or give an honorary title (bear in mind that these titles are given for life). Getting your main advisors to like you will improve their efficiency. For instance having a Chancellor who hates you is a really bad idea...

2) Your demesne size increases with your title (count, duke, king and emperor) and you get a bonus for Gavelkind and some technology (in the culture column). Each county count as one domain (being a duke only has positive effects at this point since it increases your maximum demesne size). If you go over the limit revolts are more likely to happen. The idea is to find the right vassals so you can give them land and make sure they like you and they remain weak (you don't want vassals to become more powerful than you). Look for vassals with the Content trait (avoid Ambitious vassals) and if you can be your heir's vassal it's a nice perk.

Last but not least if you land your son make sure you marry him first because otherwise you won't have any say in the matter (it's important). Also if you're running Gavelkind landing your son will not deprive your other children from claiming big chunks of your domain at your ruler's death.

3) You should be able to change leaders by selecting the army and clicking on the commander's name. Remember that army leaders can get captured or killed so think twice before using your heir as an army leader. You can also prevent your advisors from becoming army leaders in the advisor control panel (as a side note there are events that can cause some nasty things to happen to advisors so keep  in mind that if you're not lucky your Marshall or your Steward can be maimed, your Chancellor can be assassinated or your Spymaster captured or killed).

4) Your boats have a maximum capacity which is indicated if you select your fleet. You have to select your army and separate your units to get them on the boats. Boats are very quick and useful once your fleet is big enough to carry your armies (remember that if a vassal controls the boats you won't get the maximum number unless this vassal likes you -vassals who dislike you don't contribute to your forces as much as vassals who like you).

5) I've read on the forums that some players had leaders reaching an advanced age and I once saw a Holy Roman Emperor get to the late 80s. Bear in mind that with age your character can become senile. Natural deaths can happen at any time but are more likely to happen once you reach 60. Assassinations can also happen if someone with a high Intrigue dislike you or if there are plots against you (you can use your Spymaster to counter plots if you want although studying technology is a real boon early on you can even locate your Spymaster in an Arab controlled territory to benefit from their advanced technology).

6) You talked about vikings and I don't know if you're running the Old Gods my advice would be to avoid the Old Gods for now because dealing with viking raiders can be a real pain when you're struggling with game mechanics.

Don't make your wife the Spymaster (you already get her stat boost).

Uniting Ireland is a good goal and you should try and get it done before the Scots or the English come knocking. England and Scotland will usually fight it out and once one prevails you can expect them to start looking at your lands. This game is just like chess, you always have to be looking ahead, it's not about your next move it's about what happens after that and what you would like to achieve. Sometimes your plans will crumble and sometimes unexpected opportunities will offer themselves to you so you will have to adapt but in the meantime having a clear objective is of paramount importance.

You can invite courtiers from other courts to your court if they have claims for other counties. You don't have to fight for them (if they're not your vassals or from your bloodline you won't benefit anyway) but if their stats are good they can make great advisors. Be careful not to go too far though since once your court gets to big you will have less children (it's a game mechanic).

When marrying your daughters you can use the matrilineal option to make sure their offspring are of your dynasty (it's safer that way).

When it comes to your sons getting them good wives is important. Good stats matter a lot (look for traits like Genius, Quick and Strong that can be passed to the offspring and avoid congenital defects like the plague). I see you've already seen the point in getting allies. If they like you they may fight on your side which is always a nice bonus (although your main forces are what you should be counting on).

Never give land to an Ambitious character unless you want your amibitious son to kill your current ruler and take his place. Ambitious characters always get greedy when they get some land.

Saving money is a good idea. However you should use the intrigue panel to organize events like feasts, fairs and hunts that will increase your Prestige. They will cost money but sometimes you can get that money back thanks to event. Increasing Prestige is very good because there is a modifier with other rulers based on that. Piety becomes very useful once Holy Orders are available but remember that these troops can only be used against heretics, pagans and people following a different creed. Excommunicating someone is an easy way to get to declare war (which can increase your prestige as well provided you are successful).

The reason why money is so important is because you can use it to improve your counties and create new fiefs in some counties. When it comes to improvements you should always focus on your capital (you can move it if you want although it's only a viable option if you find a much better county for your capital). The real reason why you should save money is to be able to hire mercenaries. They can save your hide if you're facing a revolt, a greedy neighbour or if you want to speed up a conquest. Just make sure you have enough money or they will become a threat to your domain (and possibly take over).

Last but not least money can be used for assassinations which are costly and can be ineffective and possibly dishonour you if your involvement is known. You can also plot against someone with the intrigue button which saves money but requires you to get people to back up your plot. Getting rid of your wife that way can be the easiest way.

If you imprison someone without just cause you will get a reputation as a tyrant and the same modifier applies if you revoke someone's titles (sometimes it can be the right move though especially when you have good reasons and when your vassals love you -for instance taking lands from a vassal who is too powerful or who could pass his county to a higher ranking noble through inheritance but you'll get a warning before that happens).

Your Spymaster can uncover plots which open a choice: you can either ask the character responsible for the plot to end his or her scheming or have them sent to your dungeon (the success depends on your relative Intrigue score).

The game is really interesting because things can play out in many different ways. Sometimes you can pinpoint the decision that made all these things happen (just like your nephew's death).

When it come to war it's important to be able to crush your enemy which mean having more troops than they can muster (that's where mercenaries can be useful because the cheapest mercenaries can be hired and used as cannon fodder). Bear in mind that when it comes to sieges you need to have enough troops or it will end in a stalemate (you will have to offer white peace and lose prestige) and having more troops can really speed up the process (so spending 200 gold on mercenaries may be worth it especially when the enemy is as strong as you are). Once you get more counties and more levies you will be able to take over little counties without using mercenaries. Look at the counties they possess to get an idea of the levies they can get. Alternatively you can check out the ledger at the bottom on the right hand corner of the screen for extra information.  

Triactus wrote:
Oh, a question just occurred to me. What is a just cause to imprison a character? Would knowing my wife had my nephew killed be a just cause? Is it possible to fabricate a just cause? (just like we can fabricate a claim to a county). Assassination can be costly, so imprisonment can be a good alternative to take a character out of the picture (at least no permanently).

Just cause happens when your Spymaster tells you of a plot (which means you have to act on it right away) otherwise you may end up being known as a tyrant. When you Spymaster tells you of a plot you can either ask the character to stop the plot or imprison that character (success being based on your Intrigue score compared to the character's Intrigue). A wife with a high Intrigue score can be troublesome especially if she doesn't like you (which is why I like my wives to have a high Stewardship instead).

You can plot against a character by clicking on the intrigue button on a character's main page, it's the dagger shaped icon under the character's portrait. It will open a new Intrigue in your Intrigue panel and then you will have the option to ask other characters to back your plot.

Triactus wrote:
Another small comment : one thing I found I liked is the "events". I had an event popped where a mysterious person gave my patriarch a book and disappeared. My patriarch poured over the mysterious book to learn its secrets and gained the illuminated trait. After a while, he couldn't perceived its secrets, but did gain a love for books and got the Scholar trait. I like those little "adventures"... :)I like when a game talks to me, especially a game like CK2 where nothing happens for a while.

That's something that I really like as well. Smile

Your character's current ambition is particularly important when it comes to events. If you choose to improve some traits. You can only take this ambition for traits that are below 8 you will get events allowing you to increase them (it's a good idea to choose this ambition when your character's traits are at 6 or 7 otherwise it will take forever for that ambition to be fulfilled).

My last advice would be to take your time. Sometimes there isn't much happening especially when you're starting as a little count but you should pay attention to special events that can be initiated like fairs, feasts, hunts and the rest because they can get you much prestige and create many opportunities that may (and will) surprise you.

I hope you're having a great time. Feel free to tell us about your game or ask if you need more information. I think you're off to a great start! Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:46 pm

Carabas wrote:
4) You have to select your army and separate your units to get them on the boats.

How exactly do you separate your troops? Lets say I raised the levies from my own personnal holding (600 for example). I've come to realise it's a 100 soldiers per boat ratio. Let's say I have 5 boats. Can't I just put 500 soldiers on and do another run for the last 100? Am I forced to have at least 6 boats in order to transport my army?

Carabas wrote:
Don't make your wife the Spymaster (you already get her stat boost).

Yeah, I didn't do that. She was already on the council when I started my game... Smile

Carabas wrote:
Your Spymaster can uncover plots which open a choice

That's something weird, though. I've been playing for 20 years, and yet, my spymasters have never discovered a plot (my present one has 26 of intrugue I think. Pretty nice stat! And he is in my main county doing the scheme action). Either I'm doing something wrong, or nobody is bothering with me... Laughing

A couple more questions :

1) When someone is excommunicated, is there a way to get them back in favour of the pope? (would creating an anti-pope do anything at all for that?) And it says I can safely imprison someone invoking any resentment in other vassals. Question : Can I also seize land and titles for the same reason? i.e. if the excommunicated character has an earl title, can I revoke it without alarming the other vassals?

2) Do your vassal earls give you any tax money, usually? I have two earls that don't give me a cent. They're also kin. Does that affect anything? (and the relationship is positive).

3) This is more of a rant than an actual question, but the latest patch screwed up some stuff, IMO. In the tutorial, it was said that once you get 50% of a de jure duchy that doesn't exist, you can create the title and it gives you an automatic on the other 50%. It was a very useful move in addition with the "fake a claim" action. Now, with the new patch, you need 51%. Wtf?? In Ireland, they're all even numbered duchies (either 2 or 4 counties). That sucks! It's basically useless for me to create a title now (unless to delegate to a vassal). I have to now rely on the "fake a claim", which is dependant entirely on chance for it to work (The other duchies only have boys and such, it would be a hell of a job to get a claim that way, and a hell of a lot of duchies to claim before I can create the kingdom of Ireland de jure.

---

So, I continued my game. Murchad mac Diarmat had a suspicion that his wife wanted his nephew dead (a magical suspicion that was echoed in his head from his God, named Triactus). So he had her assassinated and she died before she could say anything. He remarried, choosing Nest, his son's wife's cousin. He had two more children with her.

In the meantime, Murchad raised all levies (his own and his vassal's), hired a mercenary company and walked to Breifne to make good on his fake claim. His father, Earl of Leinster (south neighbour to his county of Dublin) also joined his attack. Breifne was overwhelmed and eventually capitulated. His father died soon after (from natural causes), leaving him the task of organizing two counties, all of a sudden. Alas, the petty King of Connacht wasn't too pleased, as Breifne was a part of his kingdom. So he marched to war. Murchad was once again pressed into combat. However, he hadn't yet disband his army, so the armies from Dublin and Leinster as well as the mercenary company fought back. There were so successful they fought their way up to the king's castle walls. Murchad and the King signed a peace treaty (Murchad wanted Connacht, but had no claim and had to be content with the prestige the war against the King brought him).

With the armies disbanded, Murchad begun the process of uniting and developing his three counties. But he didn't stay idle for very long. His chancellor very quickly was able to fabricate a claim on Connaucht. So Murchad quickly levied his army and marched on. It wasn't a long fight, as the King's armies hadn't had time to fully replenish themselves. Murchad thus became Petty King Murchad the First of Connaucht. His new vassals quickly stepped in line behind the new king and all was well. The deposed king fled to a northern county, offering his services as spymaster. Murchad new he would have to deal with him, but as he didn't have any friends in northern Ireland, nobody would back up his plot and he was forced to let him be.

A decade of peace followed on the continent, but King Murchad was pressed into a war in France, where his ally, King Philippe the first, waged war (Murchad had his second son mary the King's sister). King Murchad knew he couldn't send soldiers, so it was a symbolic gesture. Alas, it would come back to haunt him. As he was technically engaged in a war, he couldn't change the succession laws in his land. he wanted his first born son, Dommall, to inherit all land and titles. But as gravelkind was the official law, his estate would be divided. As age 59, King Murchad started showing signs of dementia which would culminate in his son and heir, Dommall, assuming the regency two years later. King Murchad died soon after.

Petty King Dommall the first didn't have it easy. Most of the nobles didn't like him (including his blood), and lost all but two council members (his spymaster and his steward). His vassals didn't like him enough to send him his tax money, so his income was strapped. To make matters worst, his father's estate was split : Dommall inherited the Connacht county as well as the title of King, his brother Donchad inherited the counties of Breifne and Leinster while his infant half-brother became Earl of Dublin. It was less than ideal for King Dommall, but you have to play with the cards you are dealt, as it were. Dommall went ahead and replenished his Council and deployed great effort (titles and money) and established himself as a legitimate ruler.

An earl of a southern county in Ireland successfully had King Dommell's brother and Earl of Breifne and Leinster, Donchad, excommunicated. King Dommall is unsure how to get his brother in the pope's good grace, he is waiting to see how it will play out before choosing an active side.

King Dommall has steadied his expansion sight elsewhere, though. As his wife is sister to his father's ally, King Bleddyn of Gwynedd of Wales, she has a claim on the Kingdom. As his new chancellor is, for the moment, incapable for producing a claim in Ireland, perhaps it would be wise to back up his wife's claim. He would have no power in wales, he knows, but then, his son would inherit two kingdoms. Interesting power would be before him.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:19 pm

Nice story, I love seeing how your game unfolds. You're right of course being in war does have some drawbacks but in this game the interesting thing is to play the cards you've been dealt. The first goal is survival and then expansion. Also as you've found out the claim system reflect feudal times. You can't expand on a whim, you have to plan it.

Expanding in Wales before uniting Ireland is a bit tricky unless you've got the boats for that... Otherwise it will be very complicated to defend your holdings in Wales.

When you select an army you can click on the arrows to unite the troops or separate the army. If you don't have a large fleet this is what you have to do to embark part of your army (it can be pretty annoying when you can't send all your troops so getting more boats is a necessity when you're on an island and want to expand).

As for the Spymaster uncovering plots, sometimes there are no plots. It gets more eventful once you rule numerous vassals and have ambitious family members eyeing your throne.

1) You can get the Pope to lift the excommunication if he likes you (the option is available on the character screen). You can of course send your Chaplain to Rome to improve your relations with the Pope (you can also send your Chancellor to other courts to improve your relations with other rulers something that is useful when you have a Liege).

You can declare war on excommunicated characters without a claim but that will only give you prestige (you still need a claim to conquer land). You can imprison excommunicated vassals without penalty for tyranny (as for revoking titles I haven't tried it with excommunicated vassals but I don't think you can do that without getting penalties -the best way to revoke a title without penalty is to have your vassal revolt which will only happen if they hate you and think they have a fighting chance).

2) Taxes are set at zero by default, you can pass a law to increase taxes for nobles (the clergy give you money if they like you more than the Pope and city vassals give you money by default). Increasing taxes for nobles will make them dislike you (it's only a valid option if you can afford the opinion hit). Don't forget that levies depend on the opinion so if your vassals don't like you they won't give you as much troops. Getting some extra money can be nice but unless you're really popular or you don't depend on your noble vassals for troops it may be best not to ask them for tax money.

3) I started playing the game with the 50% rule so I get what you're saying but the 51% rule makes sense... If you watched the video for that part you certainly remember how things started to accelerate and how everyone would accept the Earl of Dublin as their Liege. In a way making it slightly more difficult is probably an interesting decision.

In any case you certainly don't want to give a vassal a Duke title unless you are a King yourself (and even then you want to be careful when it comes to the recipient). Because a Duke can't be another Duke's vassal so by making one of your vassals a Duke you would grant that vassal independence and there is no telling what he would do next with his new found freedom (in my current game I'm playing a vassal of a King and that King has decided to give away a Duke title that should be mine since I control the entire Duchy to one of my vassals who has therefore become a Duke like my character -it's actually a smart move if you want to prevent one of your vassals from becoming too powerful especially if that vassal controls three Duchies and holds two Duke titles like my character does- since the laws of the realm don't prevent a vassal from waging war on another vassal and since my character has a claim the new Duke won't be able to keep his new title for long but it is still annoying). Smile

The nice thing about starting in Ireland is that you are independent and it's somehow isolated so you don't have to worry about neighbours (at least for the beginning). Wales is a completely different ball game.

The Fabricate Claim thing is random so sometimes it can take ages and sometimes it can work pretty quickly. If you feel like it's taking too long you can try switching to another county. I don't know how the numbers are calculated but sometimes randomly generated numbers in videogames can end up in a loop so changing a factor will get new results (just like moving your character in BG when you start getting critical misses over and over again).

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:59 pm

1) yeah, I noticed the "lift excommunication" a few minutes after I posted the message. Embarassed Do you know what is the rating you have to attain to get the pope to lift an excommunication? Or excommunicate someone on your behalf, for that matter? And are you able to invade and steal someone's county if he's excommunicated (à la Medieval 2 Total War), or can you just attack (without claiming the county) and/or dispose of the excommunicated character without consequence?

2) I found out the answer to my question : it was the feudal tax law. It was set at no taxation. I changed it to minimal (2 of my 4 vassals were Earls, the 3rd vassal was a bishop who liked the pope more than me. Kinda put a damper on my income...).

----

So King Dommall the First was preparing to invade the welsh county of Gwynedd since his wife had a claim to the kingdom. Then, he realized his brother Donchad had a weak claim to the Ireland county of Ossery, just east of Donchad's county of Leinster. He has no idea how that claim came to be (he had suspisions that it might be Donchad's own spymaster), but he knew he had to make a choice : back up Donchad's claim, or back up his wife's claim. The pressing need to make a decision is on the part of Gwynedd, because the land is in turmoil of war. Gaining 4 counties in that war would be a very possible outcome (although keeping them would be tricky, since many there are many claimants to that kingdom.

King Dommall finally decided to back up his brother. His wife's claim on Gwynedd would transfer to their son and once that war would start, he would undoubtedly be knee deep in fighting and wouldn't have a chance to take Ossery. As his brother was not an ambitious man, he knew he could entrust him with three counties. Boosting their relationship would also be a boon as King Dommall had just revised the realm's feudal tax law to have a minimum income from his vassals. Together, the King and his brother fought Ossery, who called in an alliance with Tyrconnell, one of the northern irish counties. After crushing the Tyrconnell army, the King occupied and won the war for Ossery.

Before he could turn his sight over to Wales, tragedy struck. King Dommall had underestimated his brother's son. The latter, too ambitious for his own good, had his father assassinated. Unfortunately for him, he was not able to keep his name out of the plot. Upon hearing the news, King Dommall had his nephew imprisoned immediately. Now, the King is in front of a decision. As his nephew is now Earl of Breifne, Leinster and Ossery, the King gets no tax income from them. If he executes his nephew, he will incure the displeasure of many nobles in his realm as well as the Kinslayer sobricet that has already stained the imprisoned nephew. The King is already plotting against another imprisoned noble who has a strong claim on Ossery. He few years might pass before that is resovled. The king is comtemplating hiring an assassin, but he does not immediately have the money it would take for that.

In the meantime, King Dommall made another move in his chess game by marrying a member of his kin to a courtier in Dyfed, who happens to have a claim on the county. If King Dommall uses his wife's claim on the Gwynedd kingdom, he looks to get the counties of Gwynedd, Perfeddwlad, Powys, but also Gwent. Combing Gwent with Dyfed would not only allow him to create the Deheubarth duchy, but also combine Deheubarth and Gwynedd to create the Wales Kingdom. But he must remain focused, else he looses sight of the immediate dangers. He also will have to be patient, as he will have a short window of opportunity in 2 or 3 years to change the succession laws once and for all, so his eldest son will inherit the totality of his parents work.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:54 pm

1) You still need claims.

2) You can have your Chaplain set to improve church relations to get some income from the clergy.

Interesting outcome for your game, I like reading about that. I would never give three counties to one vassal, you're really taking chances IMO. It's better to keep the best counties for yourself and give away crappy counties to people that can be trusted (within reason). I tend look for low Intrigue scores when I decide to created a landed vassal. Another thing is to give away counties with troublesome vassals (say you have a mayor or a baron who hate you and you don't feel like making them like you giving away the county to a new vassal will make these lower vassals his problem).

Also Content characters can have Ambitious sons... You can keep the nephew in jail for the time being (since he is ambitious he will never be happy with you and may end up plotting against you if you let him out). You can plot his demise because spending gold would probably a waste. It depends on the nephew's heir and whether you can inherit from him (unlikely) or whether you want him to pass his titles asap (and for that you will have to get him killed).

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:20 pm

Yeah, I'm looking to have him killed. His sister is the heir, since he was young and unmarried. The relationship between the nephew and his sister is -100, so I don't think she would miss him much. Smile Do you get a positive relationship boost with your fellow plotters if a particular plot succeeds?

It wasn't my idea to give away those counties. The first two were awarded to him as part of the gravelkind succession law (I was never able to change it to primogeniture as I wanted to do. There was always one condition that wasn't met (hadn't reigned for 10 years, was in a war, ect)). The third county, Ossery, was out of necessity. I need 7 counties on my side to be able to unite Ireland and go after the 6 other counties (either by offer of vassalage or by conquest). With Ossery (my fifth county), I only miss 2. I am trying to fake claims in southern counties and I know one of my vassals is trying for another. As revoking one of his title would create a huge backlash in the vassals, I decided to use the opportunity and let him be (and I was under the impression that a content vassal would not pose an immediate problem...).

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:53 pm

Looks like you're doing fine considering a first game is never easy.

Remember that you can't arrange marriages for your vassals but you can do that for your courtiers so you should consider getting that niece married to someone who can't possibly take these counties away from you.

I've become a huge fan of matrilineal marriage when it comes to kin just to make sure the offspring is part of the bloodline.

As for plotters I can't remember so if you notice a modifier it would be nice to share the information. Smile

Primogeniture is not easy to enforce. You have to have peace (obviously) and you have to reach High or Absolute Crown Authority. The easiest alternative is Elective in which case you want the people voting to like you so they won't elect somebody else. Just to be sure it's safer to make it so that all potential candidates are from bloodline (so if you can't swing the votes for your favourite heir you will still be playing a member of your bloodline and not end up losing your title on succession).

If you go for female heirs make sure they are married matrilineally (you don't want their heirs to be of another dynasty).

Gavelkind can be a pain but it can also work if you manage to keep only one eligible heir (either by making your other sons bishops or by killing them). The major drawback is that if your last heir dies before you can get another one on the way you're done for. In the end Elective is not a bad option (and definitely my favourite, all you have to do is make sure your vassals like you or that contenders are characters that you are allowed to play).

In the Sword of Islam DLC Muslims have an interesting mechanic allowing them to select their most powerful son as their heir. It's pretty convenient but Decadence is fuelled by landless sons and can tear a kingdom apart.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:03 pm

I've read an interesting way to go around gravelkind : "you can grant all or most of your titles to your heir before you die so there is only one title left to inherit. This leaves you with less direct control over your courtiers and dynastic marriages, a greater reliance on your vassals, and the remote possibility that your heir will raise rebellion against you when you have nothing left with which to defend yourself, but succession laws cannot get in the way if the transfer of titles occurs before your death."

Not bad... but only really works if you transfer it shortly before your character dies of old age. If he's assassinated before, it does nothing for you (you would have to give up direct control of everything way too early).

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:04 pm

I'm not sure if it works with the latest patch... I may be wrong as I try to move away from Gavelkind asap but I can see the drawbacks in doing that. Basically anything can go wrong and you may end up waiting for your ruler to die which can take a long time (if you're not lucky) and that means you won't have much income or much levies left. It's better if your heir is Ambitious and has a decent Intrigue because that way it won't be long before he kills your ruler. It happened in one of my games and I was actually looking forward to that outcome. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:57 pm

So more on my game :

King Dommall had to make a decision about his kin slayer nephew in prison. Not only he didn't receive tax money from his three counties, but he is also unable to raise any levies from them. 3/5 fo your Kingdom that is at standstill is quite a black hole. So he sent his spymaster to the county where the nephew is imprisoned and had him build up his spy network, it might come handy. He also plotted against his nephew's demise, landing quite a number of people backing him, including his nephew's bishop and his spymaster. Having those two is quite an unexpected boon. After a year or two of King Dommall concentrating his efforts in accumulating money, securing his claims and organizing fests and fairs, he received the word : his nephew died in a prison break attempt. His three counties were divided between his two sisters, both of whom were cordial with King Dommall.

It was now time to spring in action. His half brother, Lassinder, was already Earl of Dublin (passed down upon his father's death). Lassinder also had a claim on Kildare, the county around which Dommall's kingdom was arranged. Dommall decided to fight for Lassinder's claim. It would be giving another county to his brother, but the relationship boost that would derive from it would ensure his loyalty. So the King raised the levies and went forth to besiege Kildare.

Something unforseen struck. His oldest niece, the one who inherited two counties from his kin slayer nephew, formed a faction and demanded the King's crown. Not giving away to blackmail, his niece rose up in rebellion, teearing up his kingdom in a war. His half brother and youngest niece remained loyal, so the rebellion had not spread. The King had no choice: he let go the siege for Kildare (which had also called in their alliance with Tyronnell, a northern irish county) and marched straight to Breifne, where his eldest niece's army awaited him. He knew their armies were, at best, evenly matched. So he called in reinforcements in the form of a mercenary detachment. With their help, the battle near Breifne was a success. His niece's army was crushed. But now, there were decisions to be made. He could reclaim the two counties for himself, but that war would be long and costly. There was also Kildare to take care of. So he decided to go another way. He declared a white peace with his rebellious niece. Awed by his crushing of the rebellion and thankfulness at being spared, she stepped back in line.

The army resumed it's march to Kildare, besieging the county until it fell into his brother's hands. But another opportunity knocked on the door. His chancellor was able to fake a claim to Thormond, eastern neighbor to Kildare. The armies moved swiftly and once again, another county was annexed to King Dommall's kingdom. He had the prerequisite amount of land to create the Ireland Kingdom, but as he was 55 and ill, he knew his son would be soon inheriting his kingdom and the task to united all the irish. Alas, it would not be immediate. The piety and monetary needs to make this goal be reality would push it farther in the future for his heir, Finn, who would also have his hands full in uniting and securing all the nobles under his rule in the first few years of his reign.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:49 pm

I'm enjoying reading about your game and it seems to me you're doing a fine job so far. Smile

Once your character will be king the game will become slightly different and in many ways more interesting. Do you still have ambitions regarding Wales?

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:05 pm

Haha, thanks. Although I think I made a mistake in conquering Kildare right away. It might have been wiser to let the heir, Finn, do it and thus get the relationship bonus with the Earl of Dublin. I forsee it will be a harder transfer of power than the previous one, as there is vassals with a lot more power (two characters hold two counties each while a third one hold on county). I plan to granting Thormund to Finn before the King dies, so Finn inherits both counties and the title of king. My first King, Murchad, had 4 counties. Dommall had 1 (for 95% of his reign). The difference in income was staggering (10 or 11 gold/month compared to 3 gold per month). If you want to have money, you need to control more than one holding.

I also read that you can take away titles when a vassal rebels. That might have been wiser in the long run, since Finn won't have the powerful niece's relationship boost. We'll see.

Yeah, I plan on uniting Wales. Since I won't be able to create the Ireland Kingdom for a long while (need 380 gold and 200 piety points), I'll have to keep myself busy. I plan on using the Queen's claim on Gwynedd to claim three or four counties. Then, I'll use one of my courtier's claim on Deheubarth to claim southern wales. I think I will then be able to create the Kingdom of Wales (once I cough up another 380 gold and 200 piety). When either kingdoms will be creating, uniting will be fairly easy. Whatever vassals won't accept an offer of vassalage will be conquered.

Question : do I need a legitimate claim on a county if I'm King of Ireland, or can I claim the counties for myself because of my authority? If all else fails, I'll try to seduce courtiers with claims on the counties.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:23 pm

If you're a Duke or a King you get De Jure claims that you can enforce on your Duchy/Kingdom. So basically you are able to claim the counties that make up the De Jure Duchy or the De Jure Kingdom without fabricating them.

I haven't played a game in Ireland yet but I'm surprised you're not getting more gold. How good is your Stewardship?

I would recommend being careful about extending your demesne because if your vassals are too powerful they may threaten the unity of your Kingdom. IMO it's best to have the maximum number of counties (you can always give away poor counties if you end up going over the limit). I know you didn't have a choice but it seems to me that it's the most serious issue right now.

Succession is never easy. The new King gets a negative modifier for his short reign and the people who loved his predecessor will probably dislike him...

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:40 pm

My character's stewardship or my steward's stewardship rating?

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:40 pm

I forgot to look at my character's stwardship rating, but my steward's is 26.

There's something that is starting to get to me. I know that making declaring war impossible with raised levies is a way to prevent blitzkreig cheese tactics, but I don't think it was the right idea. It's pretty ludicrous to me. For example, let's say my army is fighting in a Wales province. I conquer the said province. I now want to claim another nearby province (or even support a nearby ally in his war). I have to get all my soldiers onto a ship. Sail back to Ireland. Disband the soldiers. Declare War. Raise the soldiers. Embark them onto the ships. Sail back to Wales. Disembark the soldiers. March the soldiers to the county at war. C'mon, it's a ridiculous heavy game rule. Yes we're in the middle ages and not in the 20th or 21rst century, but the polish probably also thought Blitzkreig was a cheap tactic, but it was done anyway. Most wars are fought by being opportunistic and catching your enemies with their pants down. Instead of the no raised levies rule, they should have imposed a few days wait before you can cross the enemy frontiers. Thus it gives a bit of time for the enemy to raise his own levies.  

And talking about army, why is it that you can't select a stack of armies (unles I'm missing something)? Let's say I raise levies from four different provinces. I move them all to the same county. They're stacked, but I can't issue an order to the stack, I have to issue an order to all four armies. That creates a problem when moving, because they don't all travel at the same speed and I often lose soldiers because the first army to arrive is much smaller than the enemy's army.

I played a bit last night :

King Dommall the First, at 55, knew it would be a while until he would be able to amass the funds and piety to be able to unite Ireland (it would undoubtedly be his son's work). So in the meantime, he set his eyes on Wales. His wife had a claim on the petty kingdom of Gwynedd, and as she's getting old too, he decided to act on it. King Dommall declared war, raised levies and sailed away. They got there and proceeded to conquer three of the four counties. Gwynedd surrendered and the King's wife became a Queen in her own right. The armies returned to their homes in Ireland. After a while, King Dommall checked up on Gwynedd and saw it under attack. He offered to join his Queen's war, which she graciously accepted. When King Dommall's armies got back in Wales, Northumberland, a petty kingdom in england, had already occupied half of Gwynedd. King Dommall's armies rushed in and liberated one of the counties. Forever more, the king would be known as King Dommall the Just.

It was at that moment that opportunity struck in the king's ribs. His oldest niece, who previously rebelled against his crown, once again rose against him. That was the last straw. The King paid a lot of gold for a good mercenary unit, which won decisive victories against the niece's armies. They then proceded to besiege one of her counties, Breifne. The King's armies liberated the last of Gwynedd's counties and sailed back to the main land. They rushed to her second county, Ossory. After a long siege, the niece surrendered. She was promptly jailed. The King took away Breifne from her. He would have also taken Osory from her, but the vassals were uneasy with that. So he let her keep it, but starting to make plans for her to never leave prison alive. To his surprise, her two vassals (bishop and mayor) as well as her sister and her husband were all in agreement with the King that should had to go. It was just a matter of time now.

At that time, tragedy struck as the king's wife died. Their son, Finn, became petty King of Gwynedd and move to Wales. Happy for his son, King Dommall knew he also lost a good Marshall in his son that would be hard to replace. After a while, the King checked on Wales to see how his son was doing and saw the southern county of the kingdom had rebelled. With Gwynedd still weak from replenished levies, the King sailed in and beat the south county into submission.

King Dommall was also surprised to learn that his half-brother and holder of Dublin and Kildare, had married the king's youngest niece, also holder of Leinster. Their heir will have to be closely watched. 

By this time, the King had amassed sufficient money and was able to finally create the Kingdom of Ireland. Out of the 6 remaining independent counties, half bended the knee. Two resisted and one was engaged in a foreign war. The king moved to the southern most county, which had a heathen religion. He made it a holy war and promptly, with the new added counties' levies, annexed that province. At 67 years old, and being ill for the last 12 years, everyone thought he would have died sooner, but dreams and ambition can do wonders on a lifespan. With two more counties to go, the King knew the island would soon be united, might even be in his lifetime.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:09 pm

He may yet live to see Ireland united under his rule!

Triactus wrote:
There's something that is starting to get to me. I know that making declaring war impossible with raised levies is a way to prevent blitzkreig cheese tactics, but I don't think it was the right idea. It's pretty ludicrous to me. For example, let's say my army is fighting in a Wales province. I conquer the said province. I now want to claim another nearby province (or even support a nearby ally in his war). I have to get all my soldiers onto a ship. Sail back to Ireland. Disband the soldiers. Declare War. Raise the soldiers. Embark them onto the ships. Sail back to Wales. Disembark the soldiers. March the soldiers to the county at war. C'mon, it's a ridiculous heavy game rule. Yes we're in the middle ages and not in the 20th or 21rst century, but the polish probably also thought Blitzkreig was a cheap tactic, but it was done anyway. Most wars are fought by being opportunistic and catching your enemies with their pants down. Instead of the no raised levies rule, they should have imposed a few days wait before you can cross the enemy frontiers. Thus it gives a bit of time for the enemy to raise his own levies.  

And talking about army, why is it that you can't select a stack of armies (unles I'm missing something)? Let's say I raise levies from four different provinces. I move them all to the same county. They're stacked, but I can't issue an order to the stack, I have to issue an order to all four armies. That creates a problem when moving, because they don't all travel at the same speed and I often lose soldiers because the first army to arrive is much smaller than the enemy's army.

Tri you can merge armies. Click on the arrows to unite armies and click on that button again to separate them. Once you create an army it will move as one unit.

You can disband troops anywhere but it's better to do it in your territory -otherwise you will have to rebuild your levies. So following your example if you conquer a province in Wales you don't have to take your armies back to Ireland (but you have to dismiss them and summon them again).

I don't really mind this. I think any form of "blitzkrieg" would be out of place in that setting. You already have raiders in the game and you can still launch "surprise" attacks on foes who are already being attacked or who have lost their troops in previous conflicts (it just takes some days to gather your troops which doesn't sound so unrealistic IMHO). This game is not about steamrolling. You may be able to crush your enemies, capture them, torture them, kill them and their entire families but in the end you still have to proceed through stages. Breaking a truce can be done but it shouldn't be done on a whim.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:22 pm

Carabas wrote:
Tri you can merge armies.

Yeah, I wasn't sure if I was missing something or not. This will come in handy.

Carabas wrote:
You can disband troops anywhere but it's better to do it in your territory -otherwise you will have to rebuild your levies.

They say unless you disband them in your territory, you will lose some levies as some will get lost, others will just not come home, others killed. With the state of thing, I need every soldier I can take. But my point remains even if you just have to re-raise your levies. You still have to ferry them from your home counties. Imagine if it were real life : you're the despot of Auvergne. You successfully invade Limousin. Once you're done, an opportunity arises in Aquitaine and you can take that province too. So you march all your soldiers back to Auvergne and disband them. You then send the call to arms and march your army right back in Limousin and cross to Aquitain's territory. See what I mean? Even in the middle ages, they wouldn't have done that, they would have pressed on (even more stupid when you actually have to cross the sea between the home county and the enemy county). scratch 

Carabas wrote:
I think any form of "blitzkrieg" would be out of place in that setting.
The mongols? Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:31 pm

I see what you mean but you shouldn't use the term "Blitzkrieg" because it's something that is inherently associated with WW2. It's the same if we talk about "Shock and awe" tactics. I see your point that we could transpose the principles behind that in medieval times but it is still slightly inaccurate IMO.

Quote :
They say unless you disband them in your territory, you will lose some levies as some will get lost, others will just not come home, others killed. With the state of thing, I need every soldier I can take. But my point remains even if you just have to re-raise your levies. You still have to ferry them from your home counties. Imagine if it were real life : you're the despot of Auvergne. You successfully invade Limousin. Once you're done, an opportunity arises in Aquitaine and you can take that province too. So you march all your soldiers back to Auvergne and disband them. You then send the call to arms and march your army right back in Limousin and cross to Aquitain's territory. See what I mean? Even in the middle ages, they wouldn't have done that, they would have pressed on (even more stupid when you actually have to cross the sea between the home county and the enemy county).

If you've just taken Limousin you can disband your troops there.

I get your point about the annoyance of "commuting" from Ireland to Wales but I can see the relevance of that game mechanic. This game doesn't work like Civ and you have to set some sort of objectives to your wars. Think of it this way, as a lord you don't have standing armies so you're raising your levies to fight a war in order to achieve a certain goal. Your footsoldiers and your knights expect that the war is going to be over once you're done so they can go back to their families and their regular lives. That's the way I'm seeing things and that's why I don't really mind how the game works.

Don't overlook logistics. The game will take into account attrition if you start waging wars far away from your own territory.

Besides warfare was more about proving a point than destroying the enemy (especially when you consider wars between Christians). Full-scale wars weren't that common and if you consider how things used to work in Italy you have a perfect example of that system being brought to the limit. In the 15th century Italian city-states and the Papacy relied on Condottieri (mercenaries) who would do anything to avoid real combat and would end up solving conflicts by taking bribes and changing sides. They weren't trying to kill their enemies because they knew they could get a ransom from a captured foe. Their battles were all about drama and theatrics and that explains why they were utterly crushed by French armies when Charles VIII invaded Italy (in order to press a claim on Naples). That being said the French invasion failed because the French couldn't hold Naples and despite causing more casualties to the Italians they couldn't maintain supplies and they couldn't get reinforcements.

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