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 Crusaders Kings 2

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Carabas
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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:44 pm

You have so many genius lasses it's uncanny!

I think that there is a mechanic that counterbalances Devil Worshippers so they have to stay under the radar and you run the risk of being exposed.

It may vary from game to game. In my last game the Devil Worshippers were numerous and rather influential so it may have an effect.

And yes I agree that some mechanics are really nebulous and that's something that can be annoying. At the same time knowing exactly how all the numbers work takes away from the "immersion" if you see what I mean. But then again being able to make sense of what happens and see some logic does help so it's a mixed bag really.

I remember the old days before the Seduction focus was a thing. These days you can really go all out and although it can be a bit crazy at times it's also a lot of fun especially when you have a high Intrigue guy siring bastards all over and sleeping with his rival's wife. I have to say that when I'm playing such a character I have no qualms about seducing my heir's wife if it means a chance of passing on some good traits. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:39 pm

Carabas wrote:
I have to say that when I'm playing such a character I have no qualms about seducing my heir's wife if it means a chance of passing on some good traits. Razz

Just be careful. You could end up naked, chained to a menhir in a dark cave surrounded by cloaked chanting people with your heir in front of you, knife poised to strike at your heart, and thinking "what the hell did I do with my life?". Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:17 pm

Triactus wrote:
Carabas wrote:
I have to say that when I'm playing such a character I have no qualms about seducing my heir's wife if it means a chance of passing on some good traits. Razz

Just be careful. You could end up naked, chained to a menhir in a dark cave surrounded by cloaked chanting people with your heir in front of you, knife poised to strike at your heart, and thinking "what the hell did I do with my life?". Razz

That actually happened in the past. Razz

The good thing is that it's a win win (as long as you have a decent heir of course).

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:49 pm

Carabas wrote:
That actually happened in the past. Razz

It happened to you too? Jeez, it was a first for me. I didn't know fathers playing hookey with their daughter-in-law was so common. Laughing   Though, it was a sweet revenge in my case, after I gave them another chance. It puts a new spin on the popular saying : "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, HEL ON YOU!". Laughing

I played a bit last night, and I'm becoming annoyed with the Followers of Hel. I've never seen the influence higher than 32%. I try to induct people between the three months cooldown, but at least 2 people out of three aren't interested. At least. (And I try to target cynical characters with high intrigue). And when I try to use powers, like attempt to abduct, it always fails because the influence isn't high enough. And I'm often under magical corruption (a temporary trait that stays on for a couple of years) after I try my hand at missions (like corrupting religious leaders or desecrating temples), which lowers some attributes. So far, what I've gained what a wolf familiar (+3 martial), but I've gotten the possessed, arbitrary and frail traits. Not much of a trade. I guess I'll try to keep at it with missions until I can raise the influence a bit.

I was reading up on the societies online, and one of the grievances with the Followers of Hel is there are no alternatives. In the christian lands, you can be a worshipper of Satan, but there are also three other societies, at least one of which fights satanists. With the pagans, there's no counter-balance. One poster suggested something like the Followers of Odin or something, which is actually a good idea.

The society's leader was burned at the stake and I took over. Which is kind of funny as I'm the new leader of the Followers of Hel as well as the leader of the Norse religion (the Fylkir).

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:20 pm

Hilarious and ironic.

Recruiting isn't easy but in my experience abduction isn't that hard.

In any case I should have mentioned that my character was the father, not the son. Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:39 pm

Since I have a lot of money (seriously, I started raiding the trade posts around Italy's western shore. It' a poorly defended gold mine), I've been able to commission all of the items you can smith. I have a crown, sword and coat of mail. They're costly for sure, but the prestige and martial boost I get are well worth it, specially since it will be passed down to the heir. Here's my character, with his skills up to date. He's a monster in the martial skill! I should look up the duel focus. I could clean out some rivals. Smile  (btw, my character wears the skull because he's the head of the Followers of Hel).



And here's the state of things in Europe. I own most of the north (I've also managed to vassalize the Jomsviking holy order, which controlled three counties.), but Carpethia is becoming THE major power. Brittanny also took over France, which sucks since Brittanny was able to nab the three southernmost counties in Ireland. :*(



EDIT : The quality of the screenshots isn't really good. It's much clearer with the original links : https://flic.kr/p/22HhiTQ and https://flic.kr/p/JR6uPx

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:08 pm

Interesting turn of events, it's nice seeing different shades than what I've been used to.

By the way, duels don't rely on the Martial ability. The important thing is to look at traits and the focus you've chosen. You can have a huge Martial score and still lose. Duels are not about leading armies. There is a specific single combat ability but it's not listed although you can see the bonus with some traits (like Strong for instance).

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:10 pm

Ahh, I see. I've never used the duel focus, so I don't know how it works out. I thought the Martial ability applied to both the skills as a general and own personal fighting ability.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:53 am

Nope. Look for traits and modifiers, like weapons, duel focus, strong trait or lunatic trait for instance.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:25 pm

I tinkered in the games files to review the threat level decay rate. I think it's too ridiculous that, after an empire conquers one county and vassalizes a two county chief, the threat level gain is 21% with a decays of 0.32%. I'm trying to find the right decay number that offers a understandable pause while not being overly long.

My character also lost a limb last night. While leading an army of 4000 men. Against a groupe of 200 soldiers. -_- And this is where being a Follower of Hel has it's appeal. I was able to use dark magic to grow the limb back! Laughing

Also, after suspiscions that my newly pregnant concubine had an affair with a count (and I wasn't the father of the baby in the womb), I sent spies to follower her. Sure enough, they were caught in the act. I had both emprisoned and sacrificed to Hel. Ain't nobody gonna make a fool of me! Too bad. That concubine was young and had great stats. :/ I also gained to trait Cruel, so I'll have to let the animal out more often. Smile

After a successful reclaim of Norfolk (which was held by Scandinavia before the idiot King of England lost it to Mercia), all three English kingdoms are now all landlocked, so they will be more easily dealt with (can't escape by boat anymore). I raided for a while to increase the coffers, and after the threat level was low enough, I decided to make a splash. I declared war of both the Kingdom of Hwicce and the Kingdom of Powys (both are two county kingdoms, and I declared war for the conquest of their capital). I figured might as well hit them hard as to not waste lots of time between conquest. Only two county kingdoms, gonna be a walk in the park, right? Wrong, apparently. Hwicce seems to have a lot of money set aside or something because while Powys mustered 2500 men, Hwicce got a whooping 7300 soldiers!! (I figure they payed for some mercenary). I landed in England with 10000 personal levies, so it took quite a lot to put down the Hwicce army (I won the first battle, but actually sustained more casualties than them). After a few routs and squashing of the Powys army (I actually captured the queen during the battle), I was besieging the Hwicce capital with 6000 men (I had lost 4000 since I landed). And again, the Hwicce king pulls ANOTHER 5000 out of his ass. I was going "MOTHERF**KER!". At the same time, a christian adventurer declared war to carve a corner of Ireland for himself (or another kingdom, it's not clear). I almost had a heart attack when I saw his 200 boats go by (but thankfully, only 3600 men got out of those boats). It was time to call all of my vassals to war, things were taking a serious toll on my levies.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:44 pm

See, I told you there was some perks. Laughing

Sometimes the game does throw a curve ball. I can't say I enjoy that but if it didn't it would end up being too easy and even worse too boring.

One thing is certain, after reading your posts I don't want to turn on defensive pacts...

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:21 pm

I continued my feud with Hwicce last night. I had just called in all of my vassals because the christian adventurer was gunning for a piece of Ireland and I had my hands full with Hwicce (who pulled yet another 2000 soldiers out of thin air). The adventurer made land fall in Iceland.... uhm, ok. Do what you have to do, bud. We sure as heck aren't going to sail to Iceland to meet you.  

But at this time, the Duchess of Flandres decided it would be an à propros time to declare war for Zeeland, my county in Holland. I let them do what they wanted while I finished with Hwicce, where I eventually successfully besieged enough holdings to reach 100% war score. With that out of the way, I looked at some mercenaries to beef up my army that was heading for Holland. I don't know if it's my being the head of the reformed norse pagans or because the jomsviking holy order has vassalized themselves to me, but to recruit the holy army as mercenaries cost a whooping..... 6 piety. 6!!!! For 6700 soldiers!  Yes please!

So the 6700 with my personal levy (now counting at 4500) was more than enough to deal with Holland. Of course, yet another christian adventurer declared a war against a Lithuania county. -_-  So once again, I had all of my vassals join my war. The first adventurer made landfall in Scotland, after besieging all of Iceland. That's what my vassals were waiting for, so they all jumped on him. Once I was done with Flandres and had successfully defended Zeeland, I headed for Scotland to completely rout the adventurer, then headed for Lithuania. I think the second adventurer pooped a little in his pants when he saw my army getting off the boats. We made short work of him.

I had been waiting for a while for my wars to end since I could now organize a blot. I was impatiently waiting for November to start the blot (you have to be at peace to do it). On October 28th, a third adventurer declared war. &%#%?&%#@$@$# Evil or Very Mad    I had to crush him and wait a whole other year, but I finally had my blot!

All through those wars, I learned of a couple of situations where vassals should have kept their mouth shut and were slandering me. I kept those names aside for a rainy day, so right after the blot, I went after them. I sacrificed two to Hel, but the third fled with his tail between his legs. Only to fall to a mysterious venemous snake in the middle of the night (*thee hee*). I also got rid of a vassal who had been a thorn at my side for a long while (always minus in the relationship, always in factions for independence or what not). My best friend, the king of humongous Sweden also hit a bump in the road. His kingdom was usurped. pale    The successor, for reasons I don't know, has a negative relationship modifier against me ("Tyrant", for 50 years, which comes with a -100 to relationship). Oh dang. So I'm doing the only thing I can do: I'm plotting to have him killed. I just hope It will work, or I'm gonna have an ugly revolt on my hands.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:15 pm

Chaos, mayhem, murder and rampage... All in a day's work when playing a Pagan in CK2! Laughing

Good job on making it so far. You need a back up plan in case that Swedish King causes more problems down the line.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:37 pm

Carabas wrote:
Chaos, mayhem, murder and rampage... All in a day's work when playing a Pagan in CK2! Laughing

Or rather : All in a day's work when playing a cruel possessed Pagan in CK2... Laughing

There was also a cute moment when one of my hairy amazons concubine was struck down defending me in a battle. She was maimed but through the ordeal, we became best friends. Awww. It would have been fun for me to grew her limb back with my freakish dark powers, but seems I can only use it selfishly. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:56 pm

So I successfully plotted to kill the king of Sweden. His son inherited. He didn't love me lots, but it wasn't as bad. Unfortunately, we will never find out if I could have cajoled him, because Sweden was usurped yet again. And again. And a third time! (actually a fourth, because the king I killed had usurped it himself). I don't know what it is with this kingdom, but my head is spinning... lol   The new King's nickname is "Cleansing Flame". *gulp* pale  Still, he accepted my invitation to carouse and we had a fantastic time, we're now besties!

I'm also looking at the long term, and I'm thinking of going feudal. I'm still weighing the pros and cons, though. I have to pass three higher echelon tribal organization laws. But that's inconsequential, since a) I can limit the vote to my council and because they gain more power, they're already drooling at the prospect. b) the harsh penalties with each law you pass only affects your unreformed pagan vassals. But I'm already reformed so there's no relationship hit and unreformed pagans are heretics anyway.

So the laws would be easy to pass, with a waiting period of 5 years between each (so technically, in 10 years, I'm at the highest echelon and can go feudal). My character is 53 and would, in all likelihood still be alive to ease the transition.

The main thing would be to still be able to declare war on anybody that's not norse (and all norse are a part of my empire), but, as I understand it, that's a pagan thing, not a tribal thing. I think there are no more raiding if I go feudal, but I don't raid that much, to be honest (and I have to go further and further now. I now only raid in the Mediterranean). And if my vassals are all feudal, wouldn't I receive a heck of a lot more money from taxes?

There's also, as I understand it, a sharp drop in personal levies, as your tribal holding is converted to a castle. But the ceiling of things to build in your holding is a lot higher when you're feudal! (right now, my power base (capital county and two adjoining counties) have basically hit the ceiling. I can't also build anymore holdings in my counties even if I have free slots. There can only be one of each type of holding). So by a generation or two, with a lot of money, I might have built enough buildings so to reach the number of soldiers I currently have and could continue to build to have an ever greater army.

And if I go feudal, do my vassals also go feudal with me? I think there's a relationship penalty if I'm feudal and they're tribal. Can I ask them to go feudal, like the option to "demand religious conversion"? It might be a better idea to actually take the leap once the next character inherits and has a stable realm before rocking it.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:27 pm

Cleansing Flame? How did he come by such an awesome moniker? There has to be a story worth telling behind all this!

I would go feudal for all the reasons you've expounded (but I have very little experience with tribals) I guess you would give up on the attrition penalty for enemies waging war on your territory if that's still a thing. I'm not sure and it's probably inconsequential considering how far along you've come.

Waiting for the next heir may be less disrupting and considering that you're not playing Ironman you can experiment and find out.

Sorry I can't really help. I usually play near the area where I live in real life (or places where I've lived so that limits my games to Lyon, Geneva and a few places in the UK and the Middle East).

I should give West Africa and the Byzantine Empire another try sometime! Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:25 pm

I've poked online for information and it seems your vassals will automatically convert to feudal only if they have a stone hillfort (the level four of four updates you can build for your "main" building in your tribal holding). You need a stone hillfort as it's transformed into a level 1 castle. I believe you can actually build things yourself in your vassal's holdings, so I might take a look to see who has what. It can cascade pretty quickly, tough, if your vassal king has a stone hillfort and goes feudal, but all of his own vassals do not and overthrow him. :/

Though it doesn't seem so bad, since it's "only" a minus-30 relationship hit if you're feudal and your vassal is tribal (a "wrong holding type" sort of negative boost). If you have enough goodwill, then it's somewhat balanced. Though it can escalade quickly if they desire a duchy you have, is of opposite traits, is ambitious and thinks you're a tyrant. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:22 pm

Ok, makes sense. It all depends on how expensive these hill forts are because you should be able to build them for your vassals (I assume you should, that's not something I tend to do as I'm usually saving up to cover unexpected expenses -in Ironman you always want enough money to hire some mercs).

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:31 pm

Yeah, I agree, but I'm quite a fat cat right now, with around 2300 gold, so money isn't too much of a concern. If in a bind, I can also recruit the Jomsviking holy order of 6700 soldiers at the cost of 6 piety points (!). I assume nothing will change this by going feudal.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:06 pm

I forgot that you're also the head of your religion. It's good to be the Emperor and the Pope! Razz

Still, 2.300 gold isn't so much that you can get careless... But then again I tend to get extra paranoid and that's because of Ironman not allowing any do-over. The more gold on the side, the better. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:27 pm

Carabas wrote:
It's good to be the Emperor and the Pope! Razz

Actually, it's good to be the Emperor, the Pope *and* the head of the satanist cult. Kettil is a renaissance man! Laughing

So last night, I poked around my empire and out of my 26 direct vassals, only 5 of them didn't have a stone hillfort (all single counts). I spent around 700 gold for one round of construction. Two or three of those constructions were for the actual stone hillfort, so the investment for the next round of constructions will be lower.

I decided I was going to go raiding to finance my hillforts. As I was putting my troops on my boat, I got a disturbing message : the Pope called a crusade for the norse controlled counties in de jure England. affraid

I obviously called in all of my vassals. And I pondered. Popes (in the Middle Ages, IMO) were ambitious, greedy cowards. They were fine with ordering the faithful in doing their dirty deeds faaaaaar away from them. The war was about to become very real for him.

I counted on all of my vassals to slow down all the kingdoms that were to join the crusade (and many did). In the meantime, my 7000 personal levies, on boats, went out of the harbour. And sailed. And sailed. And sailed..... right up to Rome. When my boats crossed the Pope's boats in the western Mediterranean, I was confident the apple was ripe for picking. So I landed my troops and started besieging. I quickly overtook the actual papal holding, which gave me a whooping 26% war score.

Meanwhile, the catholics landed enormous troops in England and started slapping my few numbered vassals around and took a couple of counties, but each county lowered the war score only of 1 to 5%. I knew if I kept it up with the remaining 6 holdings in Rome, the holdings I lost in the UK were not going to dent my progress. I also got a surprise. I understood why my vassals were so few in the UK : 16000 norse soldiers landed besides me in Rome. Laughing   I sent the Jomsviking holy order to fend off the Polish kingdom in Lithuania and soldiered on in Rome. Eventually, all 7 holdings were conquered, which brought the war score to 87%. It wasn't 100, but the Pope still surrendered to end the crusade. Very Happy  I would have been happy with just a white peace... LOL    I got a whooping 880 gold and 250 piety points for my troubles.

Since I was in the Mediterranean, I wanted to raid the coasts around, but I need to be in a friendly territory to toggled the raid option. So I would have to sail aaaaall the way to England, then aaaaall the way back. I might just  conquer another county somewhere instead. Maybe Poland.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:40 pm

Wow, that's was pretty clever! Kudos for turning the tide around, you did great Tri. Smile

Quote :
Actually, it's good to be the Emperor, the Pope *and* the head of the satanist cult. Kettil is a renaissance man!

Forgot about that, it's even better! Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:51 pm

Carabas wrote:
Wow, that's was pretty clever! Kudos for turning the tide around, you did great Tri. Smile

Haha, thanks. I almost had a heart attack when I saw the message calling for a crusade (I almost caved in and reloaded... Embarassed ). But I knew that with the kingdoms (and holy orders) that would be joining the crusade, I would be overcome if I tried to go toe to toe with them in England. And I remembered, from my raiding days, that Rome wasn't that well defended. Their army would chase me out of the area, but I was betting the papal soldiers would be on their way to England (which they were). I was just hoping the papal holdings would be the greater factor in the war score (which they were).

It made me think of the pitfalls on the early days of feudal switch, though. If your armies are significantly weaker for the first few decades, will crusades and war declaration be plenty? :/

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:04 pm

Crusades are a pain but you handled that one like a champ!

I'm taking a few notes. Wink

Necessity is the mother of invention, if you had reloaded you wouldn't have had the occasion to shine in such a cool way so that's another reason not to reload. cheers

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:06 pm

Alright, so after I handed that crusader, enough time had lapsed (threat level) so I could once again turn to a conquest. But the pitfall of going the feudal road is that to get there, you empower your council. I can't go to the bathroom now without my council approving it. And one of my councillors played his hand beautifully by buying favours from four other councillors. So now, those four vote the way that councillor wants them to. Sad   I noticed the France/Brittany kingdom was embroiled in a civl war, so I took the opportunity to strike in order to reclaim one of the three Irish counties my previous character's son lost. It was a game of strategy, but I was able to isolate and beat the armies that were roaming. I got back the county and eventually, the northern half of France became France (the south is Aquitaine, which was already independent from Brittany). The rest of the Britanny kingdom (Brittany, southern Ireland and north-eastern Spain) became Navarra. I'm glad I could at least seize the opportunity to reclaim past territory (and the county I got back was already of norse population).

Knee deep in that war is when, because of the hardship on his body, Emperor Kettil "The Just" passed away at age 61. The emperor is Dead! Long live the (new) emperor, Sveinn. He was the least bad choices in the nominations, so I'm glad. He 23 years old, so if all goes well and he lives to a ripe old age, he'll have racked up a decent long reign bonus. His stats are also not too terrible. 22 in diplomacy, 15 in martial (his original stat is boosted by my artifacts) and 10 in Intrigue. But his major downside : 3 in stewardship. D'oh. The demesne size and income is influenced by this, so not good. And I was pissed to see that he inherited only three counties from Kettil's demesne (the rest went to his biological children). It's the three most powerful counties, but still... I'm about 3000 soldiers short of my previous personal levy size (8200 to 5200...). I like the elective succession law, but man, gravelkind hits you where it hurts... :/

I also made a stupid mistake. One of those children decided to go independent, but as a three count leader, he quickly accepted my vassilization offer. I then realized as I had claims on those three counties, I could revoke the titles to reclaim them (because I have claims, my vassals are fine with that). Only, my motherf***ing councillor decides he doesn't like that, the four that owe him favours agree, so I don't have the votes to make it happen. grrr... It'll be three more years before his favour has run its course.  Evil or Very Mad  

I've also spent around 700-800 gold to boost relationships. It wasn't too bad, but I had a lot of 10-20s, so most of them would be in factions (I think I had like 6 vassals in the independent faction). I finished the war Kettil started, went through the available Blot. Next up, raiding and raiding. I need to make a heap of cash before I go feudal (I have met all the prerequisite right now, so only the will to do so is missing). I have less income and levies now, so I need to have a lot of money to invest in my counties to quickly raise them up to a confortable level. I can't just look at the outside threat if my personal demesne is weak (the AI will be more likely to declare war), but also internal threats. The vassals will be more likely to be unruly if I'm weak.

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