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 Crusaders Kings 2

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Carabas
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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:01 pm

3 Stewardship really hurts... I could live with 3 Martial but that one hurts...

Switching characters is always tricky, everyone wants a piece of the pie and it seems to me that you're keeping most of it together which is not such an easy task.

The Byzantines have it easy since they can grant lifelong Duke level titles to vassals meaning that these come back to you when the vassal kicks the bucket. It really helps.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:50 pm

Carabas wrote:
The Byzantines have it easy since they can grant lifelong Duke level titles to vassals meaning that these come back to you when the vassal kicks the bucket. It really helps.

Any pagan can do that too. I have a law option to implement Viceroyalties. It comes with a -5 to the vassal limit, but it can be indeed beneficial to prevent your vassals from growing too powerful and keeping a grip on your kingdom/empire.

So I did it, I made the switch to feudal. I raided a bit before hand to get much needed funds (and netted the always pleasant viking trait! Very Happy ). With my previous character, Emperor Kettil, my demesne was at 10 titles, with 8200 soldiers and 18 gold monthly income. When Steinn inherited, I lost all but the three main counties and had access only to 5200 soldiers and 8 gold. Before going feudal, I conquered two counties (a tribal holding in eastern europe and feudal Oxford in England) as well as inherited a Dane county from a vassal that passed. That boosted my income to 15 gold. After the feudal switch, I went down to 3000 soldiers (ouch) and about the same income. In the month or two following the transition, all but three vassals also converted to feudal (or were already feudal from conquered feudal lands). My demesne also went down to 6 (not helped by my 3 in stewardship), which is a pain since I had to make difficult choices.

First off, man is there a lot of stuff to build. I burnt almost 1000 gold just constructing castle walls and upgrading keeps in the first construction round. Laughing  I'm also pleasantly surprised at the possible buildings you can construct that enable special actions (gardens to reduce stress, secret passages to increase intrigue, a personal study to read, etc). It'll be fun to explore the possibilities. So far, though, my priority is to expand my levy size.

I also looked at revoking the titles I held before Empire Kettil passed, but the gain is too small considering the lowered demesne size limit. So I looked outward and saw my vassal in Zeeland waging war against the Austrasia kingdom in central Europe for the Holland county, next to Zeeland (my empire holds all but two counties in de jure Holland. Holland itself and the northern coastal county, Westfriesland). Austrasia was also infighting with a revolt, so I declared a conquest war for Westfriesland as well as joining my vassal's war for Holland (knowing both would be won or lost together since their owned by the same kingdom). We both had shitty levies, but I manage to defeat the standing army. The size of my army was a little too close for comfort while sieging, so I raised my vassals levies (man, is it different from calling tribal vassals to war. I can actually control them, now. It's so beautiful! :*) ). The downside is it's a pain to assemble all those people. Anyways, with my 10 000 warriors, I made quick work of Austrasia and welcomed Holland and Westfriesland in the fold. I'm still working on upgrading my holdings (slowly but surely), however, with almost all of my vassals going feudal (only one is still holding out, but he might have converted, I'm not sure), my income is now at 31 gold per month.  king

I'm also having trouble with something. I was looking at the possible succession laws I could try out. Elective gravelkind limits the possible nominees to your dynasty members. Does elective monarchy work in the same way or do you risk of losing your throne?

I also took a look at primogeniture, as your demesne is passed on in its entirety to the heir, which is safer when you switch characters. To adopt that law, one of the requirements is to have either the Imperial Administration law, or have the Late Feudal Administration law. Now, you need the Majesty fifth technology rank for the first one (which I don't yet have, I'm at the third rank). I see that in the pop up. But nowhere do I see what the requirement for Late feudal Administration is. I've seen online that you need the third legalism technology rank, but I already have that. In fact, I don't even have the Administration Laws option in my realm law screen. Am I missing something? Is Administration laws for non pagan realms? I don't understand. I can't seem to find anything like that on online forums. It sucks because I don't want to invest in Majesty yet, as I'm hoarding my culture tech points to reach Legalism 6 (only 500 more points to go!) in order to push the final women status law (being able to play as a Sheildmaiden ruler would be quite cool!). So I don't know if I have a bug or if I'm just missing some info.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:40 pm

I didn't know Pagans could set up viceroyalties, that's handy.

Unless I'm mistaken if it hasn't changed with a patch Elective Monarchy does open the succession to any candidate, i.e. any Duke level character. So it's something to be wary of.

If in doubt save and find out but I would make sure I keep all the sensitive titles within my grasp.

As far as changing laws I think there is a limit regarding the number of times you can change laws especially when it comes to succession. Switching to Primogeniture may not be available because you changed your laws to switch to Feudalism? I'm only guessing.

I should really play a Pagan, it's been literally years since I played one.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:35 pm

Carabas wrote:
As far as changing laws I think there is a limit regarding the number of times you can change laws especially when it comes to succession. Switching to Primogeniture may not be available because you changed your laws to switch to Feudalism? I'm only guessing.

I don't think that's it. I can still change some realm laws. The feudal switch is more like an Intrigue special action.What confuses me is I don't have have the Administration law header at all in my realm law screen. It's not clear if there's a missing requirement for it to appear or if it's a bug. I might just use the command console to get the fifth Majesty tech rank to see if anything changes and then load back.

Carabas wrote:
I should really play a Pagan, it's been literally years since I played one.

There's no time like the present. Smile    It'd be fun to read your own viking stories, instead of only me filling up the thread with my blabble. Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:49 pm

Could it be a bug? That's entirely possible. scratch

As for starting a CK2 game well it's tempting but I have many games that I've been meaning to finish (including that Civ 6 I started the other day which is incredibly dull) since I could use the space on my drive next week when Kingdom Come Deliverance is scheduled for release.

Which reminds me I've been meaning to get back to my Mount & Blade Warband Viking Conquest game which was going fairly well when I last played sometime last summer...

Plus I like reading about your guys. I enjoy some Pagan action vicariously!

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:10 pm

Hum. I didn't know anything about Kingdom Come Deliverance. You piqued my interest so I went to have a look on wikipedia. Looks like a very promising game. Be sure to let me know your first impressions!

I played a bit of Viking Conquest, but while it was nice to actually have a story, I was pulled into the game as much as I wanted to be. Though the theme music is the best viking theme I've heard.

I forgot to mention in my earlier post. I learned that as a norse pagan, you can till raid, even though you're feudal! cheers

And ever since I reformed the germanic religion, I still haven't used the powerful holy war declaration. You can conquer entire duchies/kingdoms in one go, but I'm too afraid of other same religion leaders joining my enemy. So I always conquer one county at a time. :/

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:26 pm

So basically going feudal is a win win then? Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:34 pm

A lot more win than lose for sure, but there is the first generation or two where you are weaker than your previous tribal self. The buildings in your holding basically scale back by two when you switch to feudal, so there is a danger of vassal and foreign leaders AI seeing you as an easy prey (the AI evaluates your personal levies when declaring war). However, the feudal ceiling concerning levies and income is A LOT higher than with tribal. So you definitely win on the long term.

I had everything maxed out (save the port) in my capital tribal county. With my marshal recruiting in the county (which raises levies while the councillor is on this mission), I could raise around 3200 soldiers in that county alone. Now, I'm around 1200/1500, but there is still many many buildings to build. And tribal levies are mostly comprised of light infantry, which, in the middle stages of the game, become quite weak compared to the better balanced feudal troops (who have more heavy infantry). So you can't just look at the general number of soldiers either.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:32 am

And if you're interested, here's a pic of my current leader. Notice my new nickname. Twisted Evil

And a current pic of my Empire. There isn't major changes from the last pic I posted, but I now have Holland and have made headway in eastern Europe. And the other kingdoms are sightly different.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:44 am

Great pictures! Cleansing Flame sounds absolutely great and you've been busy painting the map blue. Smile

Funny to see Carpathia so big and Spain almost green free.

The thing is if you stay tribal you are limited sooner or later because you can't go up without going feudal. What you say about troops is very true, at a certain point light infantry doesn't cut it anymore.

Your guy is terrible when it comes to Stewardship, it's amazing you're managing to keep things going with such a terrible score.

EDIT: just noticed this thread is almost five years old! cheers

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:11 pm

Carabas wrote:
Great pictures! Cleansing Flame sounds absolutely great

I actually got it because I burned a satanist at the stake Laughing (hence "Cleansing Flame"). What's also cool is my wife is Seer (the court chaplain position on the council). She's the one who rooted out the heretic and proposed to burn him. So while I got my nickname, she got her own : Iliana "The Inquisitor". I was planing on divorcing her because she has rotten stats, but now I can't. "Cleansing Flame" and "The Inquisitor" is just too cool. Smile

And speaking about nicknames, out of my seven characters so far, only one didn't have one (and only one nickname was repeated). King Röganvaldr "The Wise", King Sveinn "The Pious", Emperor Thodr, Emperor Kjartan "The Noble", Emperor Haesteinn "The Wise", Emperor Kettil "The Just" and now, Emperor Steinn "The Cleansing Flame". Very Happy

Carabas wrote:
Funny to see Carpathia so big and Spain almost green free.

Yeah. Damn Carpathia. It pretty much stops my southern expansion. I'm going to nab the occasional independent county, but I won't have a choice to start going at larger fish, probably in the French area.

Carabas wrote:
Your guy is terrible when it comes to Stewardship, it's amazing you're managing to keep things going with such a terrible score.

Tell me about it. Laughing   It sucks because my demesne is affected by it. I was thinking, since I'm now at 24 in diplomacy, I could try to shift my character focus to Stewardship. A +3 boost wouldn't hurt. I just don't know if I'd lose the "Dedicated carouser - +2 diplomacy" permanent effect. I try it out and reload if it's the case. -5 is pretty steep.

Carabas wrote:
EDIT: just noticed this thread is almost five years old! cheers

I know! Was looking at the first page of posts a few days ago. I was reading all my questions and facepalming at a few of them.

Speaking of facepalm, I... ah... figured out my Administration Law conundrum. I hadn't...*ahem* noticed that there was a slider to scroll down. *cricket cricket*. Nothing to see here. Move on.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:52 pm

You got some of the cool nicknames that's for sure.

Is having your wife as a Seer a really good idea? I mean she's already adding her stats to yours so unless I'm mistaken she may not be contributing as an advisor.

Regarding the Dedicated Carouser I think it's part of the focus, is it not? In which case switching focus would get rid of it.

Personally I would ditch the diplomacy focus for stewardship in order to boost that a little and see if you can trigger a chain of events that will increase it even further (that's part of the focus thingy). With a little luck you could even get a few nice traits this way.

By the way I was reading my first posts and I realised that it was in fact in my first game that I had my ruler sleep with his son's wife (before executing the son for heresy) and later on the grandson marrying his grandfather's widow (but don't blame him, she was a Genius Midas Touched). And all that happened a long time before Way of Life. Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:22 pm

Carabas wrote:
Is having your wife as a Seer a really good idea? I mean she's already adding her stats to yours so unless I'm mistaken she may not be contributing as an advisor.

In the absolute, no. But she had the best learning ability in the possible nominees and I need that to convert as many counties as I can to the germanic religion. And I was in sore need of loyal councillors to balance out the gloryhounds in the votes.

If we can name one good thing that Conclave contributes to the game, it's the realism it brings to the council (much more akin to real life). It's now a delicate balance you have to navigate.You have to make tough choices when naming councillors : "how will his projected stance will impact the present voting?" and "should I prioritize attributes or powerful vassals that are angry for not being on the council?". Many people complain about this on online boards, but I humbly think they're wrong. It's like earlier, in my game, when a councillor bribed three other councillors for favours. He thus locked the council on voting his way for three years. I had no choice but tip my hat to that awesome move on his part.

Carabas wrote:
Regarding the Dedicated Carouser I think it's part of the focus, is it not? In which case switching focus would get rid of it.

Personally I would ditch the diplomacy focus for stewardship in order to boost that a little and see if you can trigger a chain of events that will increase it even further (that's part of the focus thingy). With a little luck you could even get a few nice traits this way.

I'm just afraid that if I lose too much diplomacy, I'll have a harder time maintaining my grip on the empire, but the more I think about it, the more I think I'll need to take the plunge. A 6 holding limit is smaaaaaaall.

Carabas wrote:
By the way I was reading my first posts and I realised that it was in fact in my first game that I had my ruler sleep with his son's wife (before executing the son for heresy) and later on the grandson marrying his grandfather's widow (but don't blame him, she was a Genius Midas Touched). And all that happened a long time before Way of Life. Laughing

Wow! On a scale of 1 to 10, the awfulness of the son's life is at 12. Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:10 pm

Conclave can be hard but it's definitely an improvement, that's for sure.

Triactus wrote:
Wow! On a scale of 1 to 10, the awfulness of the son's life is at 12. Laughing

Yes, I felt dirty and fell in love with the game!

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:34 pm

Yes, Conclave makes dealing with the council a pain. But I roll my eyes towards theback of my skull when I read online forums with posters lamenting how annoying the council is. Just like... you know... real life in the middle ages (and arguably like today still). Wether it's a feudal council or a council of ministers in 21rst century democracy, the best for the job is seldomly selected. Wink The friend, the deep pocket donator, the one with the most pull with voters, etc., are often those you see in powerful roles.

And I hear you. The small details are what makes this game seem alive. I think I've said this a couple of times, but here's what made me fall in love with the game was on my very first playthrough in Ireland. The council is automatically formed upon game start with each council seat taken by the character with the best ability in that role. My wife had been named spymaster with an intrigue skill of 12. A couple years later, my nephew comes of age with 23 in intrigue. "Nice!", I think to myself. I booted my wife off the council and named my nephew spymaster. A few months later, my wife successfully assassinates my nephew. I was blown away!

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:04 pm

That's what I like as well. It's where they succeeded with this game. Smile

Triactus wrote:
Yes, Conclave makes dealing with the council a pain. But I roll my eyes towards theback of my skull when I read online forums with posters lamenting how annoying the council is.

In the words of Dr House, people are stupid. Rolling Eyes

I find the favour system is such a great addition as well and it works both ways. You wrote about the example with your council but I've been using favours to get my way and force a character to accept a proposal. That's a great way to get a character to do what you want. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:33 pm

Carabas wrote:
I find the favour system is such a great addition as well and it works both ways. You wrote about the example with your council but I've been using favours to get my way and force a character to accept a proposal. That's a great way to get a character to do what you want. Smile

I don't use favours all that much because outside pressing councillors to vote a certain way, I don't really have uses for it. I also think there should be more tweaks on it. I dislike that favours forces you to do certain things. You should have a choice to refuse, albeit with consequences attached to that (like a temporary "dishonourable" effect that lowers your diplomacy and relationship with other characters), kind of like breaking a betrothed. Make it a very steep consequence if you have to. But give me an option. You'd at least have a way to refuse disproportionate favours called in. And/or, at the risk of uselessly complexifying the feature, a gradation of favours would be appreciated (ex: small favours yield small return, big favours yield big returns).

I got an event where my steward (owner of a single county) made headway into taxation or something, which netted me a nice little sum (like 30 gold or something). The outcome was I owed him a favour. He called it in by forcing me to marry his useless son with my genius daughter (and a regular marriage, so the children would inherit claims to my empire). Wait, what? How on hell is that comparable? I would have gladly accepted a penalty for refusing that request. That was the first and last time I ever owed someone a favour.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:12 pm

I would have sacrificed or killed his son but the idea is that favours are meant to screw with you one way or another...

I've been at the other end of the same bargain and frankly it's really nice when it's playing in your favour and allows your heir to get a high ranking bride

But clearly it's best not to owe anyone a favour (and if you do it may not be a bad idea to take that person out before they can ask for it to be repaid).

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:59 pm

I finally tried out the holy war option. I wanted to nab Mercia, which is basically the only remaining kingdom in the UK (there is one independent catholic county in Wales and two Irish counties that are owned by the Kingdom of Navarra). Since Mercia has 6 counties, I didn't want to lose my time conquering it over and over for one county each time. I can declare a holy war to conquer a duchy sized title (Mercia had three different two county duchies), but since the kingdom of England has been created and is held by a Scandanavian vassal (and thus have a de jure claim on Mercia), I had the option for a Great holy war for the whole thing, which would be transferred to the king of England. Since he had very few titles (I think the kingdoms has seven or eight counties), I wasn't too concerned about adding another 6. My main concern was on how many catholic leaders would join Mercia. Nobody would join my side since all norse leaders are already part of my empire.

So I raised all my levies as well as my vassal's levies. As much as it's a pain to link up all those 100 or 200 stacks, throughout the empire, together, it's less of a pain of dealing with autonomous tribal armies, I can tell you that!

So by the time I had the bulk of my army collected and en route to the UK to link up with my soldiers over there, only Mercia's 6000 troops were in play. And only the Templars, and their 6000 soldiers, had joined Mercia. I landed and proceeded to England with two stacks : one of 17 000 men, another of 14 000 men. Needless to say, it was a short war... Laughing  After the conclusion, I netted 500 prestige points, 1000 piety points (!), as well as increasing the germanic religious authority by 10% and decreasing the catholic authority by 10%. Not bad for a quick job.

I was also laughing hard because while I was fighting Mercia, a peasant revolt erupted in one of my Lithuanian counties. A scary 2000 peasant army. As opposed to the tribal vassal call to war, I don't lose my vassal's levies once a war finishes unless I manually disband the army. So the peasants had the pleasure of seeing 31 000 war-tempered glorious norse vikings land next their 2000 pitchfork wielding men. Twisted Evil

Here's the revolt leader :
Spoiler:
 

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:42 pm

Epic!

I love this show. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:40 pm

Arrested Development? Yeah, after hearing about it forever, I finally watched it on Netflix last year. I loved it, really my kind of humour.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:01 pm

I have the original series on DVD and I binge watch them from time to time. Been a fan since 2006 and I thought I was late to the party! Wink

You know what, the Bluth dynasty would work pretty perfectly with CK2! Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:08 pm

Yes, Micheal with the Kind trait, Gob with the Mystic trait, Buster with the maimed trait, George-Micheal lover of his kinswoman... Laughing  Is there a CK2 trait for "afraid to be nude"? Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:25 pm

There should be one.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:38 pm

There is one in The Sims (never-nude), but I don't think it involves jeans. Were jeans invented in the 9th century? Laughing  So the never nude trait for CK2 : decreases fertility, decreases different sex opinions and exposes the trait holder to blackmail should it be learned by another character (can be blackmailed out of factions or be publicly exposed.... in more ways than one), possible homosexuality... We just need a graphic designer for the icon and we can program it into the game. Razz

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