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Triactus
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Triactus


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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Crusaders Kings 2 - Page 19 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 26, 2020 2:43 am

I feel your pain! Missing out because of a few years is frustrating. It's a shame CK2 can't be like Civ in that regard.

In my viking game, since I'm a pagan, the catholics (mostly the Carpathians and the Pope) keep me in line. Razz  But I definitely get what you mean. When you make mistakes, the game punishes you hard. Laughing

I've always wanted to do an Iroman game in both CK2 and XCOM2, but I'm a rather unfocused person in general. I have trouble maintaining my attention, so I tend to make obvious mistakes (like if I go raiding with two boats, I tend to forget the second one and that warband, standing still, eventually gets killed by the defending army... Laughing). Being able to reload is my safety net, protecting myself against me. Though I try very hard not to reload in strategic mistakes. Does that make sense?

BTW, heard anything new about CK3?

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If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you.
- Steven Wright
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Carabas
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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Crusaders Kings 2 - Page 19 I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 28, 2020 3:52 pm

I play Ironman to keep things challenging and to try and live with my mistakes. It's a different approach but I actually like that. Of course the game needs to be stable enough and relatively bug free. There is nothing worse than wasting dozens of hours because of a corrupted save.

I'm of the fence regarding CK3. I've grown to dislike Paradox for their DLC policy. It was ok when they were the underdogs but now they're publishing many titles and expanding I wish they would settle for a more reasonable marketing policy when it comes to extra content.

Plus I'm filled with misgivings regarding their games lately. They did mess up the launch of Imperator Rome and it's difficult not to compare that game to Field of Glory Empires which is DLC free and adds the possibility of playing strategic battles in Field of Glory 2.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Crusaders Kings 2 - Page 19 I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 10, 2020 2:56 pm

All this talk of CK2 made me want to continue my game, but I've hit a dry spell in my current Viking playthrough. The Carpathian Blob Empire grinds things to a halt, because it's basically a stalemate between us two (I even thing Carpathia has the upper hand), so it would be too much to handle Carptahia AND other opponents in a holy war. So I'm basically just tyding up my empire, reclaming counties lost over time to the Russians and unwittingly destroying Bavaria (I think. I conquered a Bavarian county that was poking through my border, only it turns out it was the only non-revolt/legitimate Bavarian county. Laughing ). And also conquering catholic holy orders' holdings in my territory tThe templars just fielded 10 000 soldiers to defend their holding. Impressive!). But declaring wars to fight over a single county is tidious and time-consuming.

The Carpathian emperor is steadfast in his refusal of my every proposal (he's unmarried, so I tried to arrange something), even though our relationship is at +70. If I want to progress, I have to screw up Carpathia and there's basically two plans I can think of, but I'm not sure if either would succeed :

I can try to find a claimant to a kingdom that's a vassal of the Carpathian Empire and invite them over, vassalize them somewhere in my lands and then push their claim. I assume, if it works, that their kingdom will be under my banner, and not independent or worse, still Carpathian. But for that, I need to find an interested claimant and that's not a given. I have previously checked the same for the independent catholic Kingdoms (Rus, Aquitaine, Navarra, Italy) and no one is interested. I assume I'd be the same for the Carpathians.

I also have a vassal who's a claimant to Carpathia (a third brother of a previous Emperor). He'd go independent if I fight for him on the throne, since another emperor can't be vassals. The upside would be that Carpathia wouldn't be in the equation for any future holy wars, since it would be norse (I assume the religion shifts to the leader's personal religion?). On the other hand, it would basically remove my casus belli for any Carpathian territory (as a pagan, you can attack pretty much every non-pagan thing that touches you) and it'd be an even bigger pain if I am on bad terms with a norse emperor. And that's assuming my guy could stay on the hotseat. In my first CK2 playthrough as a French duke, second generation claimant to the HRE throne, who ended up the Holy Roman Emperor, it took all about 5 minutes for an empire-wide revolt because I was a foreigner. And I was catholic and everything!

Both those plans assumes I would win against Carpathia, which would be a long and bloody struggle even if I win, which I'm not convinced.

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Carabas
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Carabas


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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Crusaders Kings 2 - Page 19 I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 11, 2020 1:23 pm

Yeah I'm not sure plan 1 would work because unless I'm terribly mistaken once your vassal becomes Emperor he will be independent. It would work with a kingdom claimant but not with an imperial title.

Plan 2 is not too great for the reasons you've listed. Besides your kinsman may very well turn Catholic which would screw you over.

Bottom line if you're going for such a long and annoying war you may want to make sure you can get something major.

If I were in your shoes I would play the long game. I would convert my guy to Catholicism while keeping the Norse religion as a secret religion. Marry my heir to the heir of the Carpathian Empire in order to unite both empires and then convert back to Norse religion. It's a bit messy and you may have to kill a few pretenders here and there but if you pull it off then you'll have achieved what no wars could have done.

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Triactus
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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Crusaders Kings 2 - Page 19 I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 11, 2020 2:44 pm

Hum, I hadn't thought of that. But how do you switch religion, exactly? I don't think I have any options like that. And would that be a cause for revolt, both with my vassals and in my population? I'm also the religious head (the Fylkir), so I'm not sure how that would play out (maybe that's why I don't have any option to switch religions?).

Yeah, Plan 1 was to try to find a claimant for a kingdom, in a bid to tear away a part of Carpathia. There's also a (slim) chance that if I send my chancellor on a fabricate claim mission, he might be able to pull of a claim on a kingdom (the chance of that is significantly lower than a county, I think).

Still, whatever happens, I don't look forward to that war. Not so much the actual battles, but a fight of that magnitude is so much a pain in the ass it's frustrating. Attrition is a complete nightmare. You need high number of soldiers stack to fight the home stacks, but you basically have to wander around with 30 or 40 stacks of 1 thousand soldiers, or else you start losing your things. I just don't think the game is made for high number wars (I mean, the biggest medieval battle IRL was Grunwald in 1410, and it was what? 30 000 against 20 000?

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If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you.
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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Crusaders Kings 2 - Page 19 I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 11, 2020 4:06 pm

I just remembered there's a Sow dissent action for the chancellor (which I never really used in any playthrough). Is it useful?  Maybe if I send over my chancellor to Carpathia and I'm extremely lucky, I could foster a civil war. Like, in a mucho best case scenario, push an eastern carpathian kingdom to civil war against the empire, which I could then profit by declaring war against the German-still-loyal part of the empire, so the blob will be split unto two fronts (me and the rebels). But that's also hoping no other christians comes to the rescue. That's a lot of ifs. Maybe a Fabricate claim is a better occupation for my chancellor... Laughing

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Carabas
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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Crusaders Kings 2 - Page 19 I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 11, 2020 8:35 pm

The sow dissent option is really a longshot. As far as I can see it's the same as improving relations but the opposite.

Switching religion is easy if you have a spouse following that religion. You can get some options to show some interest. The other option is to get the Catholics to wage a crusade on your empire and then you'll be able to convert.

Sure there will be some dissent but nothing that can't be handled.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Crusaders Kings 2 - Page 19 I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 17, 2020 6:50 pm

Looking at it, the emperor's heir is his brother (the emperor has no children), and the heir is a glottunous craven incompetent (well, sort of. His absolute best stat is 8, and it's in learning...). As it turns out, I was able to create an assassination plot on the 24 years old homosexual zealot Carpathian emperor. And I was able to bring it to 101,5%, which kicked in the event a few days later. Lo and behold : the plot succeeded, the emperor is dead, and my involvement is a secret!  The VERY funny thing is : my emperor has an intrigue score of 2... Laughing  

So the new emperor is on the throne. I could try to assassinate him too, but with an intrigue of 2, it might be pushing my luck. If I do, however, the next two heirs are the new emperor's children (of very low age). The regency might be a time of civil war? Has this been the case when there's an inheritance of a vast empire with an underage kid, in your experience, Cara?  And, If I continue on my killing spree, the third heir is.... my norse vassal. It's entirely possible for me to put him on the throne without a single fight. Only, his duchy (Dijon, I think), would then become part of Carpathia, even if he is eventually disposed by a revolt. On the other side, a norse Carpathia, even momentarily, would enable me to blitzkreig the Aquitaine kingdom (southern half of  real life France). And if a civil war to dispose of my vassal erupts after I conquer Aquitaine, I might be able to steal a german duchy during the civil war.

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Carabas
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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Crusaders Kings 2 - Page 19 I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 17, 2020 8:43 pm

Sounds like you have a real plan.

Regencies can go both ways. Some kids have enough prestige to stay in power and avoid rebellions but the deciding factor is often the traits of regents and vassals. Ambitious regents and vassals can be a handful.

I like having huge stats like any other guy but your council and spouse can largely make up for it. Usually this more than compensates for the low stat.

I'm curious to see how things will play out. Bear in mind that your vassal will probably become independent and he may convert to make his life easier. I had dynasty members ruling all over Europe in my last games and they were pretty flexible when it came to religions. The problem with this plan is that your dynasty member won't be much nicer to you (unless he stays in your religious group) and if you ever decide to take him out you may get the Kinslayer trait which is not very good.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Crusaders Kings 2 - Page 19 I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 17, 2020 8:52 pm

Yeah, he will absolutely be independent (since an emperor can't be a vassal to another emperor), but I'm counting on him staying norse (crossing fingers), but I think you're right that the most likely scenario is he converts to catholicism and won't like me any more than the actual emperor. Still, it's worth a try.

Actually, the vassal is a dynasty-member-in-law. He was a carpathian catholic who married a previous emperor's daughter (since he was too far away from inheritance) and converted to norse (I did it back then as an ace in the sleeve, if I ever needed a claim on Carpathia). Probably increases the chances of him converting back to catholiscism, though. At least I wouldn't get the kinslayer trait.

But all this is depending on my 2 in intrigue pulling this off. Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Crusaders Kings 2 - Page 19 I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 17, 2020 8:56 pm

Sounds tricky.

He will probably revert back to Catholicism. I'm not convinced that you stand to gain much by that but if you can get Carpathia to revolt and are quick enough you may be able to pick up a piece.

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