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 Crusaders Kings 2

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:43 pm

Carabas wrote:
I see what you mean but you shouldn't use the term "Blitzkrieg" because it's something that is inherently associated with WW2.

To me, blitzkreig is a particular tactic. I used the word to represent the sort of warfare I was talking about, but I understand your point.


Carabas wrote:
Think of it this way, as a lord you don't have standing armies so you're raising your levies to fight a war in order to achieve a certain goal. Your footsoldiers and your knights expect that the war is going to be over once you're done so they can go back to their families and their regular lives.

I completely agree with you. But what I'm saying is the game rule doesn't make sense. They should have imposed harsher penalties instead of arbitrarily imposing a no-levies-to-declare-war rule. Make it really hard to fight war for long periods of time. Have the vassal's opinion really start to go down. Have your morale no get higher than a certain point (that point diminishes as time goes on, until a point where the army is demoralized whatever they do). Have it cost more money because the army have been active for too long (and logistic is getting more expensive). As it is, the rule doesn't make sense to me, that's why I don't like it.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:08 pm

Don't get me wrong I like your idea and it would be neat to implement such penalties with a mod. As it is I don't really mind that limitation but I can understand that it can be a pain when your capital is on an island and you have to keep going back and forth.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:25 pm

Anyways, I can really imagine that you can't do a world domination à la Medieval 2 Total War. I've been playing the game for 50 or 60 years (game time, not real time... Razz) and I control 15 counties so far. Just the Britannia Empire alone is comprised of 67 counties... Laughing If you really wanted the rest of the world, you would need to obtain a total of 935 counties. I wonder if there's a powerplayer somewhere who was able to attain that feat. Smile 

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:47 pm

I'm sure some players have been doing crazy stuff like that but the game is designed in such a way that it's very impractical to do that. Smile

You're doing a fine job Tri. I'm curious to see how your game is going to play out.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:34 pm

Oh. God. Things are spiraling out of control. Not to self: on the next game, watch what you're doing and what your vassals are doing.. Laughing

So King Dommall the Just turned his attention towards the two counties that wouldn't bend the knee to his Kingdom of Ireland. The first one, Ormond, was smack in the middle of Ireland, so it was the logical first choice. The King declared war and with the might of his 11 Irish counties, quickly overcame Ormond. Now, with Ormond, the King possessed 5 demesne under his direct control. As he was old and didn't want his heritage split between his children, he started donating demesnes to courtiers until only two were left.

In the meantime, his plot against his imprisoned rebellious niece was a blunder after another. His niece's Bishop, the King's main conspirator, smuggled many assassins in the prison in an effort to simulate a break out and kill the niece in the process. Unfortunately, she didn't fall for it. The King's name even got mentioned. The niece was finally killed in prison, but not before the killer blubbered the King's name. King Dommall was therefore stuck with a kinslayer description.

The King thought it would be time to go after the last county, Ulster. Unfortunately, Ulster was annexed to Scotland. King Dommall had no choice, he declared war against the Scottish Queen. The pretext for war was of course Ulster, but rather than take Ulster because of his de Jure claim, he rather chose to push the claim of a courtier of his on the throne of the county.

During the siege for Ulster, what had to happened happened. King Dommall the Just finally succombed to his illness in bed. The torch was passed to King Finn the First. Like he suspected, Finn didn't get the approval of his court. Very few people liked him. As King Finn's son and heir had died of natural causes before 20, his only children were now three women. Having to male heirs didn't sit well with his vassels either. King Finn went on a spending spree to try to win over as many nobles with gifts, titles and nominations on the coucil. Many became tolerant of him, but some were still not pleased. He couldn't do anything about his, having spent 500 gold in the endevour. As an play to get a better relationship with Lassinder, Dommall's half brother, he granted him the title of Duc of Meath. Because Lassinder was already Earl of both Dublin and Kildare, which are the components of Meath, King Finn thought it would be harmless enough. But Finn would have to keep an eye on Lassinder. He was also married to his niece, the countess of Leinster.

King Finn finished conquering Ulster and was able to immediately sign a peace treaty with Scotland for the transfer of Ulster to Ireland. King Finn didn't want to be in a costly war with the Scottish throne, so that suited him perfectly.

On the Wales front, when King Dommall was still alive and Finn was Duc of Gwynedd, he had won his war against Northumberland and had even annexed an eastern neighboring county. He had a claim on Dyfed in the form of a courtier in his court (whom Dommall had wisely married to a kinswoman for that very outcome). He declared war and started to pound on the province with his Wales' army. Once Dyfed fell into his hands, he would the control 5 of the 8 counties of Wales and would have a deJury claim on the other 4. He was also watching his vassal, the Earl of Perfeddwlad (in Gwynedd) who was at war with the neighboring county of Chester, county under the English throne. They were already at war when Finn was made king, but he is under the impression that Chester declared war first, since the war ended between the two and the Earl was imprisoned.

In his court, things were not looking up. King Finn had to personally intervene to stop half a dozen plots already. The last one had been against his own person, arranged by the husband of a countess of his, a kinswoman, who also backed the plot. He tried to have him end his plot, but he refused. King Finn had no choice but to throw him in prison.  He let him go free after a few days, and the courtier was grateful. Unfortunately the countess initiated herself the plot next. He had her throw in prison too. Their relationship was unfortunately too far gone to be healed in any way. The King ahd thus no other choice but to plot for her demise.

Things were not looking up either. He had two factions on his hands. One of them was a vassal of his who wanted the crown authority reduced from minimal to non-existant. Knowing he would have many wars in the coming years as Scotland and England would be in his crosshair in the future, he didn't want to reduce his vassal's levies by 20%. Another faction wanted to plainly usurp his title. The spearhead was an irish Earl that wasn't too pleased with him. He would have to watch this progress.

Another unexpected event struck. The Queen of Northumberland died. As Finn had a lot of trouble with that petty kingdom, it would have been a time of rejoice, only for one thing. When King Murchad the First (his grandfather) died, his widow, Nest, left his court, never to be seen again. Well, Nest was the Queen of Northuberland! That also meant that Lassinder, son of Murchad and Nest, gained the two provinces that were left in Northumberland and inherited the title to Northumberland's duchy, making him all that powerful. Combined with his recent declaration of war against Oriel, another irish county, Lassinder would be a very powerful vassal that would have to be dealt with. But killing him would only transfer his titles to his heir. King Finn would have to meditate on his choices.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:13 pm

Your game is turning out to be pretty interesting!

Quote :
Oh. God. Things are spiraling out of control. Not to self: on the next game, watch what you're doing and what your vassals are doing..

That's exactly what I thought during my first game. Smile


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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:16 pm

What do you think I should do with the Lassinder situation? He does have a relationship in the +20s, so with a little coaxing, it might get to the 30s or 40s. But Lassinder is starting to become way too powerful... :/

There's always the option, on the loading screen, to drop Finn and play as Lassinder and his line.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:24 pm

Quote :
There's always the option, on the loading screen, to drop Finn and play as Lassinder and his line.

I like this idea. All things considered that guy has a nice situation and he is of the right bloodline. After he inherits he will end up being much more powerful than you current leader.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:56 pm

I haven't posted for a while. I have been busy and I have also found a freeware emulator for old sierra games (I still have all my childhood games, like Police Quest, Space Quest, ect). I've been reliving my childhood the last week or so. Brings back a lot of memories (in fact, I learned English with the action-typing games).

Anyway, I continued my game with King Finn in Ireland. But sh*t was really starting to hit the fan, factions and rebellion started to sprout up everywhere, I was going broke. I decided to stop playing that game and start a new one (the source of my problems was the gravelkind law that I didn't change at the beginning). I also decided to create a new dynasty with the Ruler creation dlc, for the fun of it. I gave him my surname a created a diplomacy oriented ruler. Btw, the tool is really well thought out. Every trait you give you character ages him. If you build a powerhouse, it's all well and good, but you'll start the game with your character at 105 years old... lol (happened before I caught on). I also chose a different type of game by selecting a count in a established kingdom. I took the Narbonne province in southern France (where the default succession law was primogeniture! whooo!).

So Duke Guilhème the Fourth, in honour of his accomplishments, reward Marc with the earl of Narbonne. On the first order of business, Count Marc formed his council with the best of the available men in his court. He had the support of every noble and vassal of his court, except one, his spymaster. Bernat was the son of the now exiled previous ruler of the County. Marc knew Bernat eyed the county as it was his by right. Unfortunately, he had no one able to fill the spymaster role, so he decided to keep his friends close, but his enemies closer. All the while, he quietly started to forma a plot of Bernat to take him out of the picture eventually. He sent his Chancellor to the neighbouring county of Carcassone in order to fake a claim. Count Marc eyed the duchy of Toulouse and needed to possess 4 of the 7 county in order to have a legitimate claim to usurp the duke.

So Count Marc married Hunydd, daughter to the petty King of Gwenydd, in Wales. She was a strong diplomat like him and would constitute a good family line. He also married off a few members of his court, assuring he would have a few kids turned adults that might maker good council members.

A long period of peace reigned on the county. Marc, using his honey words, was able to obtain the loyalty of pretty much everybody in Narbonne. Even Bernat was civil with him. In the meantime, Hunydd became pregnant and gave birth to his heir, David. Hunydd and Marc must have had a torrid romance, for kids came out of her like there was no tomorrow. Immediately following David, Guillaume came about, and at an early young age, showed the quickness of mind that characterized his father. Orélie, Sébastien and the twins Sandrine and Margerite completed the family.

On about Ten years of his reign, the councillor was finally able to produce a claim on Carcassone. Count Marx promptly invaded the neighbour. He was able to win the first few battles, but the siege was soon at a stand still as the garrison was bigger than the invading army. Using what little money he had left, Count Marc called in a mercenary company, just long enough to make the province capitulate. With now two counties, Count Marc was starting to get noticed. An invitation from the Duke Guilhème the Fourth came about and Marc was soon riding to Toulouse to serve as the count's Chancellor. He applied his duty with skill and finesse. So much so that, when Duke Guilhème died of illness, Count Marc was called upon as Regent to the infant daughter of the Duke.

Being forced as the duke's army leader in the succession wars of France didn't thrill him, he just hoped he would survive to hold his children again.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:24 pm

Sounds like a great start, do you like starting as a vassal? It makes for a very different game early on. Smile

Don't forget that you can invite claimants to your court and use them in your council (you don't even have to press their claims).

I haven't had much time to play lately myself (real life keeps getting in the way).

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:23 pm

Thanks! yeah, it is different. I dislike the part where I'm always dragged in wars (and my ruler gets drafted as an army ruler). The kingdom of France is in a constant succession war. There's always one claimant taking arms to fight for the crown. I'm happy to be on the southmost border. There's no fighting in my county, it's all happening in the north. Very Happy  But on an another level, it's quieter and you get more support if something happens with another county.

By the way, I have a couple of questions :

1) can you get allied and/or support in a war from a neighboring county in an another way than marriage? If you're relationship is high enough, can he help you out?

2) Does it bring anything other than a slim prestige rating of having you character in your liege's council?


So count Marc had a bit of prosperity before, as feared, falling in battle in France's succession wars. His newly of age elder son and heir, David, became count of Narbonne. Off the bat, many (most...) nobles didn't care for him. He had to spend a lot of money and titles to bribe his direct vassals into respecting his authority and their tax obligations. What didn't help any was the fact count David was a cynic at heart. His back hand comments on religion didn't help any with his bishops.

Count David also continued his father's work on Bernat, the spymaster and claimant to Narbonne. David was able to convince enough nobles into the plot, and so Bernat fell from a sawed railing balcony, never knowing who was to blame. To fill the empty spot on the council, David could have asked a few nobles in his court, but he felt they were not up to the task. He called upon a swedish noble, whom he married to his widowed mother so he would stay in his court. As a master spy, his abilities would prove invaluable. His younger brother, Guillaume, alo came of age. He is a quick thinker, an even better diplomat than their father was. Count David promptly promoted him to chancellor of his county. A deep friendship also developed between the two brothers.  

After a slow start to his reign, saying things escalated quickly is an understatement. The Toulouse duchy is comprised of 7 counties in a roughly rectangle fashion : Toulouse, Rouergue and Gévaudan on top; Foix, Carcassonne, Narbonne and Melgueil on the bottom (Count David controls both Narbonne and Carcassonne). Guillaume was able to produce a fake claim on Melgueil, which David quickly used. As he declared war, Guillaume produced a second fake claim under 2 months, this time on Gévaudan. It took some time, money and mercenaries, but David was able to wrest Melgueil from the clutches of the previous count. He had to wait a bit before taking Gévaudan, he needed to cajole the Melgueil vassals a bit and fill his coffers. He also sent Guillaume to Foix to continue his claim faking missions.

That didn't last long, however, because the count of Foix set up a "David for Toulouse" faction. While it was a nice gesture, David didn't like the lack of control such an avenue offered. He just hoped Foix wouldn't push the claim at an inopportune time. Combating Toulouse as well as Rouergue and Guévaudan wasn't a situation he was thrilled about. He bit his time, until he had enough soldiers and money to try to take on Guévaudan to take it out of the picture. It was a difficult war, as Guévaudan called in it's alliance with the neighbouring county of Auvergne. David wanted to fight this war au naturel, not resorting to mercenaries, because he wanted to keep that for the Toulouse duchy fight. After a few battles in which he won but at high cost, he was too close to not having enough units to continue the siege and had to resort to mercenaries to finally push Guévandan to cede it's land. Having reached and surpassed the number of demesne that he could hold, he knew the fight for Toulouse would have to come quickly or else his vassals would start to eye him coldly. Even Guillaume started to persistently ask for a county of his own. David wanted to obliged, but giving him a county would rob him of his master chancellor, which he couldn't afford (especially since he was using him to make back and forth trips to Rome and Rouen (the seat of the french Kingdom) since the envasion of Guévaudan started, to ensure nobody would give David a bad reputation).

The count of Rouergue, smelling Toulouse's weakness, rose up in rebellion to take the duchy for himself. Count David aided in smashing the count's armies, but waited long enough that Toulouse's own armies had been bested. Once Rouergue's count had lost in his rebellion and had been imprisoned, Count David finally joined Foix's faction and with his added weight, Foix declared war for the Duchy. Most of Toulouse's army had also been conscripted by France in it's endless succession wars, so it was an easy picking. The combined armies of Foix and count David (although diminished by the recent battles with Guévaudan) besieged Toulouse. A Toulouse loyalist army had formed elsewhere and besieged in turn Foix. Not wanting to end the siege, David resorted again to mercenaries (he had a lot of spare money to pay for them). That second army crushed the attackers of Foix and the mercenaries then went to Rouergue to besiege the county (they were the only Toulouse loyalist counties left). It was a lenghty siege, but eventually, Toulouse surrendered and David was proclamed Duc. Duc David would have liked to oust the former duchess, but as he had no C.B. per se, he could conquer it.

So David promptly gave away Melgueil to Guillaume (three folds decision : keep Guillaume on his side as well as on his council, respect his Demesne maximum and get rid of the pesky problem of a Holy roman county which had fabricated a claim on Melgueil). He had to contend with both the count of Rouergue and the former-duchess-now-countess of Toulouse, but nothing a good assassin wouldn't cure, with the correct sums of money. Or he could always incite them to openly rebel, in order to give his just cause to take away their titles. Whichever would come first...

On a personal level, he has been married for almost ten years, but his wife still hasn't born them children. He hopes nothing is wrong with her. At least Guillaume is considered his heir and should anything happen to him, he would make a very decent leader.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:23 pm

One more questions (haha, been playing for 30-40 hours and I still have many questions. Just shows how complex the game is) :

3) Let's say a duke controls three provinces but only directly "owns" one county, which is the capital of the duchy. If a claim is made on the county of the duke and is successfully conquered, does the duke retain his title? Is the duchy abolished and the other two counties become independent?


Duke David was able to solve his two duchy-claimant counts in an another fashion. He first plotted to remove the title from the count of Rouergue. With enough backers, he was able to send a letter of his intention to the count. Not wanting to spark a civil war (which he was basically alone in anyways), he quietly stepped down and David was granted the county. Once again having one demesne too much, he look at who he could give to county to. The logical choice would have been his other brother, Sébastien, but as he had already a deep friendship with him, he wouldn't gain anything from it. He thus decided to give Gévaudan to his brother-in-law, who was also his steward at the time. He initiated the same plan to remove Toulouse from the former duchess, only she wasn't gracious about it as Rouergue's previous count was. She defied the duke's will and so a war for Toulouse erupted. The duke's armies besiege and occupied Toulouse in record time. The former duchess had no choice and fled elsewhere. The duke once again elevated one of his subjects to the rank of count. David had previously invited the former duchess' heir (though not a kin of hers), who also had a strong claim on Rouergue. By giving him Rouergue, duke David sought to prevent future infighting (at least for Rouergue). The duke had also a good relationship with his new count, which the granted title only deepened. David thus kept Carcassonne, Narbonne and Toulouse for himself, moving the capital of his duchy to Toulouse as it was before he took the title.

The following years were of peace and prosperity. A sentiment was growing between both the vassals and the court : David was a great liege. The duke had very good relationship with everybody. Time had eroded his relationship with the Pope and the King of France, but he sent Guillaume, his chancellor, to work on that.

A ruler need a goal, though. With his dream to leading Toulouse fufilled, the duke was looking at the next phase of furthering his House's prestige and reputation: He would claim another duchy, and then another, until he had a little more than half of the kingdom of Aquitaine. Neighboring his western border was the duchy of Gascogne (5 counties), Bordeaux (4 counties) in the north-west, Poitou (4 counties) north of Bordeaux (which was also held by the duke of Gascogne, so that one controled 9 counties all together) and Bourbon (3 counties) on the northern border. The Dauphiné duchy also bordered on the east (and two counts also had claims on Toulouse provinces), but as duke David didn't want to kick the hornet's nest by declaring war against the Holy Roman Empire (at least, not yeat), he didn't include that possibility.

The duke had his chancellor moved around, but it didn't amount to positive relationship boost with the King. So David decided to use Guillaume to create claims in other duchies. After moving him around for a while, Guillaume was finally able to produce a claim for the county of Bourbon, the head of the Bourbon duchy. War is coming.

In his House, the once very united siblings (all deep friends with each other) had life begin to happen to them. Sébastien, the third male, developed an ambitious side of himself which bore some resentment on his lot in life. He would have to be watched. On a personal level, after nearly losing hope of ever having children, the duke's wife was finally pregnant. She gave birth to a girl, which put a dent into the duke's situation. Having a female heir didn't help his reputation, specially with Guillaume, who went from heir to pretender with the birth of the girl. The duke hope the wedge between them would mend over time.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:25 pm

As I said, I leaned towards Bourdon, but what do you suggest I do? What do you think I should focus my attention on? I feel the Kingdom of Aquitaine is reachable, but I have a feeling the spanish and the germans will pound on me if I get too strong.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:12 pm

I like the way you think and it makes for a very interesting read. Think twice before tackling the HRE since it's usually quite a huge blob (check the ledger at the bottom of the screen to get more info on the big players and bear in mind that if yor troops go too far attrition will become a problem).

Don't be afraid of getting too strong. You can always send your Chancellor to get a relationship boost or work on an alliance with one of the big players (especially if you're not planning on expanding in that direction and if there is some kind of buffer zone insuring that you don't have to get into a direct confrontation). What you don't want to do is become isolated because if that happens and you're seen as weak everyone is going to want a piece of your domain (especially if you manage to piss off some big players). You should follow your guts and see how it plays out. The great thing about this game is how hard it is to predict the outcome since decisions taken years before can have a dramatic impact on your game (I love that aspect).

1) I don't think so and I haven't managed to do it in any other way (but I may be wrong). Only direct relatives can help by the way so once you go beyond the direct family ties you no longer have an alliance.

2) It's an ambition that you can fulfill. I can't remember right now but I think you may get a relationship bonus with your Liege (but don't take my word for it).

3) Claiming a County is not the same as claiming a Duchy. Someone can hold the Duke title without having direct control of any of the Counties that make this Duchy.

Also be cautious when it comes to certain events. For instance playing as a heretic has some advantages but some serious drawbacks and if you're not very strong you will get into a world of trouble.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:33 am

Carabas wrote:
The great thing about this game is how hard it is to predict the outcome since decisions taken years before can have a dramatic impact on your game (I love that aspect).

Yeah, I know! I really realized that in my first game. My first ruler died and his wife left my court. Years later, when I was playing with the third ruler, the widow died and I then realized she had become queen of Northumberland in England in the meantime. Upon her death, her eldest surviving son, my vassal already holding too many counties, suddenly inherited a kingdom. That blew my mind!

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:38 pm

So yeah, I continued my game, and a few weird things happened :

1) My chancellor went from a diplomacy rating of 24 to 19 to 21 to 15 to 18 to 22 in the space of a few years... wtf? I changed chancellor when he got at 15, but he went back in the twenties not long after. I understand there's change and some traits might change the ratings. But c'mon, he had a different rating eveytime I looked at the character (sometimes just minus 1 and plus 1 soon after).

2) Why do vassals join the "(whatever character) to (whatever the title)" faction? A vassal created a faction of herself at the head of my duchy. That is all well and good. But at one point, another vassal joined her faction. Only, he had an opinion of me, as a liege, of +91 and an opinion of her, as a liege, of -31. Wtf?? If he thought I was such a great liege and that she would suck at the job, why the hell would he join the faction in the first place?

Back to the story :

Duke David looked at his options. He eyed Bourbon and had a claim to the capital province of the duchy, La Marche (not the Bourbon county as I mistakenly stated in my previous message). His concern was for the claiming of the duchy. He needed to strike hard and fast and claim at least two of the three, or else he would need to wait a good ten years for the end of the truce that would be signed. He tried to have his chancellor make a claim on either Auvergne or Bourbon, which were both part of the duchy, but to no avail. So David decided to strike anyway and find a solution afterwards.

He declared war, levied his army and after smashing Bourbon's combined armies at La Marche, he conquered the county and a truce was settled. Looking at his options, David decided to go the sneeky way and opted to forge a claim on the duchy title by plotting with nobles. He was able to make it work and created the claim. He was stuck in the truce, but thought that if the duchess was to be removed, the truce would no longer bind him. After a long wait to amass the required funds to pay the assassin, David sent his spymaster ahead to prepare the action and he put forth the assassination. The duchess was killed and his involvement went down to her grave with her.

Duke David once again declared war on the remaining provinces. After a few battles and a simultaneous siege of Auvergne and Bourbon, they surrendered. David was now twice duke. Only, something unexpected happened. As Auvergne was not a de jury part of Bourbon, it became a duchy-independant county. What surprised David even more was that the King of France promptly created the Auvergne duchy and claimed the title as his own. Auvergne was now out of David's reach, who would have to declare war to the King of France to claim, *if* he had a C.B. in the first place. That really put a damper on his plans, as Auvergne was the central piece he coveted, as it was on his northern border. La Marche and Bourbon were now isolated, a province of another duke between them and David's other counties.

The good news was that in the meantime, his chancellor was able to produce a claim on Périgord, one of the three provinces of the Aquitaine duchy. There were four originally, but the duke of Gascogne and Poitu had claimed Angoulême. David had to work fast if he wanted the rest of Aquitaine, as he was sure the other duke eyed those territories.

In a wave of good news, David's wife became pregnant twice in a short time. Giving birth to a girl first, she finally had a boy on the second pregnancy. David finally had his male heir. But that was not enough to help the growing tension between David and his brother Guillaume. The latter even formed a faction to change the succession law from primogeniture to seniority. Eventually, with enough support, Guillaume gave an ultimatum to the duke. Not wanting to spark a civil war, David agreed to change the law , specially since he did not truly car one way or the other (though the seniority law would probably hamper future leaders as their reigns would be short and leave to time to truly make it their own).

Because of that and Guillaume's erratict behavior as a chancellor, David decided change was needed and promoted one of his counts to the role of Chancellor. With that move, all five chancellors had deep relationships with David, a few even called friends. That made him feel all that safer.

A problem he had to deal with was that, since he had claimed the title of Bourbon and not the actual county, the previous duke was still there as count. His hatred of David had to be dealt with. David sent his spymaster to Bourbon and proceeded to plot for his demise. He didn't have time actually do anything as the former duke was assassinated by someone else (he must not have been loved). His heir, a boy not of age, took his place. Unfortunately, he had no love for David either. So the duke proceeded to have him taken out of the picture. Not before his spymaster had been discovered and killed, though. After the count was taken care of, the heiress still had an intense dislike for the duke. This would get tiresome. He will have to remove the county from them with the accord of his nobles and give it to someone else in whom he had a better trust.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:10 pm

Things have been going well. Smile

The Auvergne thing was to be expected though (the AI is not that dumb).

If your ruler is loved taking away a title from a vassal is not such a big deal. It's much more problematic if you do it several times or if you don't have good modifiers with your vassals.

1) That one is very strange and I haven't noticed such big changes in any of my games.

2) Beats me. I guess they're just meant to give the human player a hard time. I've disabled faction notifications because they are annoying and pretty random. The biggest thing to watch out for is the timing for uprisings. If they don't catch you with your pants down (so to speak) you don't have to worry that much about it.

I don't know if I would have caved in when it comes to the Seniority demand. It can be a real pain when your ruler ends up ruling for a few years and dies or goes senile once the short reign penalty disappears.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:00 pm

I don't want to take it away outright (in the character menu). I prefer to plot for it because two things happen : 1) they go away quietly or 2) they spring to war. In both cases, you don't suffer any consequences pertaining to your relationship with others. And in a role playing point of view, having backers to your plot is like your character will move only if he is supported. That means people should view that as a group of people demanding something instead of a tyrannical leader acting on whims. (plus, if the plot works and the vassal abdicts, you gain a point in intrigue!)

For Auvergne, yeah, beat up the little guy carving up something for himself. Sad Where was the King when the duke of Gascogne became duke of Poitou (and as I stopped playing yeasterday, I believe he became duke of Burgundy via a marriage or inheritance). He's the one the King should be worried about. Then again, it might be smart of me to push for the triple Duke to the crown of the king (though I guess he needs a CB on the throne). That way, I would maybe be able to squeeze Auvergne out of the Kings hands if the Duke wins... Smile Though it would be rather silly stagging a civil war in a kingdom for one province...

yeah, I was tore up over the succession law. I just caved in because I didn't want to go to war and spoil my duke relationship with a bunch of people over something that didn't seem that important. I understand people don't like short reign leaders, but I hope it won't matter all that much. :/

When I play a (fairly) new game, I tend to make alternate save games where I just try something for the heck of it, then going back to my real save game. Last night, I tried declaring war on the Holy roman Empire for the few bordering provinces some courtiers of mine have claims on. HRE was already in a war with another Kingdom, so I thought "here's my chance". I come up with 3500 soldiers and see he only has 2000. I'm like "yes!". I'm moving from Gévaudan to Vienne, to see a few more armies coming my way. After a "gulp" moment, I decide to make a stand at Gévaudan to use the defensive bonus the mountains gives me, for whatever it's worth. When they were finally on me, it was my 3500 against his 16 000... nope. Went back to my regular game and I'm not trying that ever again... Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:36 pm

I get what you mean with the plotting (it is a lot of fun) but at times I don't have the patience and there are times when you can away with being a tyrant (as long as you don't go overboard of course).

Quote :
Though it would be rather silly stagging a civil war in a kingdom for one province...
Now that's something I would like to see. Smile

As you've found out fighting the HRE is not a great idea unless you have a solid foothold and plenty of troops to back you up.

Are you using the ledger that you can access at the bottom of the screen? It lists all the extra information and gives you a fair idea of what you should be expecting in case of a confrontation with other realms.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:49 pm

Oops... Uh, I did a boo boo. I, uh, forgot to save my game when I last played CK 2. And the HRE funny business overrode the autosaves. :/  So when I sat down to play, I noticed my last real saved game was just before I fought for the duchy of Bourbon... ugh... It doesn't happen to me too often, obsessed as I am in saving my games (I usually have a finger on the quicksave button... Laughing). So, forget the Auvergne bit, forget the seniority law change bit.

David was waiting for the perfect timing to invade the duchy of Bourbon (what was remaining of it anyway). As La Marche was already in his possession and that he was able to fabricate a claim on the duchy of Bourbon, it would fall down easy. He was just waiting for his levy to replenish.

Out of the blue, Guillaume, his brother and chancellor, came around with a good news. He was able to fabricate a claim on the Auvergne county. Since it was not actually in the de jure Bourbon duchy, it could have slipped through his fingers (wink wink, although, to be fair, Guillaume had been on the same mission in my previous game. The probability just helped me out on this one). The time was right. David declared war on Bourbon and Auvergne for both claims. It was a short lived war, as the combined armies of Duke David crushed Bourbon's army and the split in two to besiege both counties. The duchess surrendered and David was awarded his second duchy. The former duchess had a lot of resentment towards David. Nothing a few assassinations wouldn't cure, that is until he found a count that respected his authority.

David was also concerned with the two factions in his court. One of the two, of less import, was of the countess of Rouergue who petitioned for the duchy of Toulouse. She had a minor power base, so he wasn't overly concerned. The second faction was more serious. His brother Guillaume headed a faction to change the succession law from primogeniture to seniority. However, after a while, the faction disbanded and all fell back into contentment. David's relationship with Guillaume even went back to it's former strength and he decided to keep Guillaume on as his chancellor.

With all well on the home front, David turned his gaze towards the duchy of Aquitaine. Guillaume was able to make a claim on Périgord. David declared war and quickly claimed the province. He was able to set up and win a plot to forge a claim on the duchy, a lot like he was able to do with Bourbon. After a quick assassination of the duke of Aquitaine, David rushed in Bordeaux and Agen and came out victorious. Having the power of 10 counties behind you certainly makes it easier to conquer minor players.

Now controlling 13 counties (and being the duke having the most provinces under him), thrice duke David's influence was recognized by the crown. He was named Spymaster of France. He now had an enviable position in his realm.

Now at 50 years old, he had decisions to make. If he continued his quest to forge claims, he might die and his claim with him (as they're not transferable). He would have to take on either small goals, or try to divide his enemy's power. His greatest threat certainly came from duke Josselin, who possessed the duchies of Poitou (on the northern border of Aquitaine and La Marche) as well as Gascogne, on his south and western front. Duke Josselin possessed 10 counties in all (though 2 of them were David's by de jure right : Angoulême (duchy of Aquitaine) and Limousin (duchy of Bourbon). The fighting between them would take on an epic fight, especially since the other duke had many friends and allies among the other duchies of France. The fight would be especially unavoidable since duke Josselin also possessed claims of Bordeaux and the duchy of Aquitaine. Three options would be available to him : assassinate the duke to buy time (although that would likely bring nothing), try to get chummy with the King and have Josselin's power split or, since there is a Josselin for France faction, the weight of Toulouse/Aquitaine/Bourbon should be put with the King and hope Josselin's armies get beaten back while David's troops invade Angoulmêne and Limousin (although he might have to choose only one of those two claims to press at a time.

A fourth option also existed. He met all the criteria to create the kingdom of Aquitaine. He had 57% of the counties, enough prestige and money. The only thing holding him back was his independence from France. As that would not happen, he was have to take arms and he would probably get squashed unless he found very good allies, so this option was written off for now (though it might change if various factions warred for the Throne. Declaring his independence and trying to claim his de jure rights on Gascogne and Poitou would be easier).

Only time (and opportunity) would tell.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:01 pm

If you become King you de facto become independent or am I missing something?

A King can only be an Emperor's vassal afaik.

Reading this I wish I had more time to play. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:12 pm

I can't actually create the Kingdom of Aquitaine because my rank would become the same as my liege. It's the only thing that prevents me from doing that. Like you said, the only way I could be king of Aquitaine would be if there was an emperor of France. Which doesn't seem likely in the near future... Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:57 pm

Thanks for the clarification. I can say that if you inherit a kingdom you automatically break free. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:05 pm

Couldn't I become the sex toy of the King of France and put myself on his will?

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:22 pm

Now that's an idea. Laughing

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