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 Inquisition

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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:17 pm

Carabas wrote:

That's why there is hope when it comes to (some) indie games because it doesn't take long to realize that the people behind the best indie games are trying to make games that they would like to play and not necessarily games that they can sell to the largest audience.

Indeed, we're agreed on that. Indie games have made things more interesting.

Carabas wrote:
I can totally imagine the "good" people at EA discussing the Dragon Age franchise and looking at the success of Skyrim to decide that they have to make the next DA game open world to sell it like hotcakes... Oh and let's get rid of all the complicated stuff and streamline everything so that people who have no attention span whatsoever can still get ahead, they'll market it as a deep tactical RPG anyway. Plus let's fill the game with stuff that looks like it's taken from an MMO, kids love that sort of crap. Sad

Heh, yep, that's about it. But the sad thing is this is not a gaming phenomenon. It's also present in tv or movies (more so). In fact, I don't think studio executive quite grasp that they know absolutely nothing about marketing and that their ideas are shit. They are glorified accountants that think they are Orson Welles or Shakespear. They should just stick to managing studio budgets and not interfere in any artistic capability.

I just read a anecdote from the failed Tim Burton Superman movie in the nineties (starring Nicholas Cage). The script was written by Kevin Smith with three rules set by the studio executive : 1) Supermen wouldn't wear his traditional costume, 2) Superman wouldn't fly, 3) Superman would fight a giant spider (wtf?!?).

He went by the house of the executive to show him the first draft. The executive interrupted him with "Who the fuck is Kal-El?". When Smith explained the part where Brainiac attacks the Fortress of Solitude only to find it empty, the exec asked "why wouldn't Superman's bodyguards fight with Brianiac? Or Superman's soldiers?". Smith rendered speechless by the exec's questions, the exec continued "So it's in Antartica? Well Brainiac could fight a giant polar bear. Yeah, let's do that.". This. Actually. Happened.

Later, the studio decided to drop the film just as it was going to start shooting, stating fears that it would bomb at the box office, the studio still reeling from previous money losing projects. Oh, and the studio executive in question? Instead of going through with the Superman movie, he would helm Wild Wild West, one of the biggest box office bombs in the last 20 years. Oh, and the heroes in Wild Wild West battle a giant (mechanical) spider. There you go.

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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:51 pm

By the way, for the sake of arguing, I don't agree that Alistair deferring the leadership to the player is equal to the player being named Inquisitor in DAI. In DAO, Alistair is not a recruit, but not a veteran either. He has trained for a little while as a Templar and has been made a Warden a few months (at most) before Ostagar, no? Isn't that why he gets the babysitting duty instead of fighting with the more experienced Wardens? And he has been presented as afraid or unwilling to have responsibilities (at least at the beginning). He freaks out once he learns he could be a claimant to the throne. I totally get why he would act like "Me? Lead? oh no no no no. You do it."

On the other hand, in DAI :

You got Lelianna who has been a spy, who has saved the world on at least one occasion, who has battled pretty much everything, who has been up to DAI the Divine's Left hand (and so had a lot of pull in the Chantry).

You got Cassandra, who has been a seeker, a good military leader and up to DAI, the Divine's Right hand (and so had a lot of pull in the Chantry).

You got Cullen who has been a Templar as well as Knight-Captain, who is presented as a good military commander (but yes, whose diplomacy skills lacks).

And they decide that it's perfectly acceptable to name an unknown mage, whose biggest previous accomplishment was being from being the fourth or fifth child of a noble family, who might have killed the Divine and all heads of both templars and mages and in doing so thrown the World in the waste basket (at least, as far as most people are concerned) at the head of the World's last hope? On the reasoning that he must have been sent by the maker because people saw him appear next to a lady or that before she died, the Divine asks for his help?

"Wait, he appeared next to a woman? Andraste is a woman. HE WAS SENT BY ANDRASTE! WE ARE SAAAAAVED!"

"The Divine asked for his help. I saw it. Or course, there's no way he could be secretly in league with those responsible without the Divine's knowledge. And it's clear that if the Divine asks the help of the first human being she sees, much like asking a bystander to help you after you fall down in the street, it means that human is maker sent and will be one of the greatest heroes ever. Right?"

Bioware. Wat r u doin? Bioware. Stahp.

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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:48 pm

That's the old Chosen One shtick and that alone explains why all these characters would defer to the player character and his/her glowing hand. Razz

IN DAO, the player character is just another Grey Warden and not the Chosen of Andraste so it has to be a flaw in Alistair's character.

The whole Chosen of Andraste is a bit of a Joan of Arc cliché. Still, Joan was only a maiden and she became the leader of men who knew pretty much everything about warfare.

By the way, speaking of Joan of Arc, I don't picture Leliana as a leader. She may have experienced her mystic crisis she is not one for the limelight.

I agree with you that Cassandra would have been a more likely candidate but she appears to be content with the role of an enforcer (or so it seems).

All in all it's a pretty contrived state of affairs but that's not worse than many other games. You don't want the player character to be an NPC's sidekick now Tri? Wink

Regarding film history, have you heard about The Magnificent Ambersons and how it was butchered by the RKO? That's such a sad story. It's like someone drawing a mustache on the Gioconda and calling it an improvement. Sad

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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:05 pm

Carabas wrote:
All in all it's a pretty contrived state of affairs but that's not worse than many other games. You don't want the player character to be an NPC's sidekick now Tri? Wink

I do agree with you. It does indeed happen often in other games,though I thought it was too much in DAI. But that doesn't make it right.

My beef is mainly that it's the writers' job to make it believable and they failed. Big time. In DAO, I went with it without problem because it worked with the characters as presented. It seemed natural that the character should take command. And remember he took command of the Ferelden wardens, meaning Alistair and himself. Morrigan and Sten only join out of story plot lines. The snowball effect starts only after, you know, they start accomplishing stuff. In DAI, the character gets thrown ahead an organization right off the bat.

That's where I get annoyed. It's not so much he's the Chosen one rather than they believe out of ridiculous logic that he's the chosen one. At least, in Oblivion, the emperor had seen your character's face in his dream. He had a spiritual/emotional reason to believe you were a chosen one. No going on a limb out of the blue.

Why would they put your character as leader? They go from "Hummm... your hand seems to have something to do with the breach" to "hmmm, you should be our leader" in about 1.5 seconds. So the character can close breaches. So? You're a born leader or you're not. Controlling breaches has no impact on your leadership abilities. I mean, why don't they go "Oh shiiiit, your hand can close the breach? Great! We'll bring you along when we'll be near breaches". Doesn't that make more sense than going "all in" on an unaccomplished very minor level 1 character?

That's what I'm saying about DAI. I agree that being a sidekick would suck. Rewrite it and make it believable. Make it so the character gets put in a situation where he has to make quick decision, succeeds at it and makes the rest (Cassandra, Leliana, etc) be like "wait a minute. Look at him. He just might be able to do it."

Or, go with your story a 100%. Play it to the max. Pull a "Spies like Us" moment. Yes, Cassandra and all put an inexperienced guy at the head of the World's last hope, but you see, they just wanted to use him as bait to draw out the real enemy that destroyed the conclave. And as he is a nobody, they believed they could manipulate him and lead the inquisition through him. *That* I would have accepted. And it would have worked.

Or do a reverse 180. Cassandra and all wanted the Inquisition to fail (for whatever reason).  It was a conscious decision. That I could get behind.

Carabas wrote:
Regarding film history, have you heard about The Magnificent Ambersons and how it was butchered by the RKO? That's such a sad story. It's like someone drawing a mustache on the Gioconda and calling it an improvement. Sad

Haha, I know a bit of it, how RKO but an hour from the movie and reshot the ending while Welles was busy in Brazil, but I don't know the specifics. They butchered the movie, I take it?

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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:30 pm

You can't seriously bring up Oblivion as an example that should be followed? Smile

In all fairness I think it's a question of perspective. I don't see DAI as being worse than most games using that tired old cliché. I understand what you're saying and of course it's contrived but as far as I'm concerned it's not worse than the rest.

You may want to check out Pillars of Eternity. The writing is definitely far above what we've been used to when it comes to CRPGs.

Quote :
Haha, I know a bit of it, how RKO but an hour from the movie and reshot the ending while Welles was busy in Brazil, but I don't know the specifics. They butchered the movie, I take it?

Indeed. Orson Welles wrote a 12 page plea for them to reconsider and let him finish editing his movie... They say there is an original copy of the movie somewhere in Brazil, it would be great if it could be salvaged somehow.

What saddens me is that these days some directors have been able to get away with many terrible things simply because they are making money. People like Nolan or Jackson for instance. Take the last Batman movie, it's definitely not as good as the previous installments, in fact I would go as far as saying the pacing is not good -cutting 45 minutes would have been an improvement. Getting away with such a bloated mess would be unimaginable for any other director.

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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:18 pm

One of the problems I have with all these games where your character is the "chosen one" is that it makes it really difficult to explain all the pointless busy work your character is required to do in RPGs, especially since it's all dangerous.

In DAI, your character is the ONLY one who can close the breach and the rifts. It makes absolutely no sense that the Inquisition would risk your character's life by sending them to clear out rogue mage/templar fortresses. The PC should be kept under heavy guard at Haven/Skyhold, only sent out when needed to close breaches, and then with a full company to act as protection.

Skyrim had the same problem. Without the Dragonborn, the world is doomed. Hey Dragonborn, go fetch this book for me from a zombie infested crypt. I mean, what's the worst that could happen, aside from you dying and dooming the entire world to destruction? Oh, wait...

I mean, I can suspend my disbelief if the game is enjoyable, but it's something that could be avoided if the fate of the world wasn't always resting on the PC's shoulders.
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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:36 am

Very good points Kana. That's the problem with CRPGs. How can we possibly justify that the main character is a hero of truly epic proportions when he or she has to run around fetching stuff for each and every useless NPC in town? DAI is no exception unfortunately.

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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:38 pm

I've started over as a human warrior (two handed focus for now) and I don't feel like it's all that farfetched that my guy should be calling the shots after all he is the one who saved the day (while the NPCs were getting their asses kicked). Plus Cassandra doesn't wait long before going nuts with all her Maker talk thus granting the player character that status.

I have to say that the two handed sword on a human model takes some getting used to. It's not as bad as an elf or a dwarf with a huge sword but still.

I wonder why they couldn't be bothered with putting scabbards into the game...

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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:56 pm

Does anyone have tips in fighting dragons? I haven't had any luck so far. The longest dragon battle I had was against the Crestwood one, but it was only at half on hit points when my two mages were the only ones left standing... :/

My usual party consists of Cassandra and Blackwall as tanks with Solas and myself (newly Knight-Enchanter mage) in support roles. I've read online about the cheese tactic of crafting a fade touched silverite powered heavy armour combined with the barrier regeneration on hit skill. I might try it out, but for now, did you manage to take any down?

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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:41 am

Kana will probably be able to help you with that. I have a love hate relationship with this game and considering I've just started Risen 3 and it's much more fun to me Inquisition is back at the bottom of my list of games I've been meaning to play (Bound by Flame, Pillars of Eternity and now Risen 3 have all been more enjoyable and as a result put a wrench in my progress).

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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:53 pm

Well, for one, if you have trouble beating them, you can always come back later. But here's my advice... Wth your tanks, focus their builds on talents that gain guard (that's the Vanguard tree, I think). With Blackwall, once he has gained his specialization, you might want to respec him and put a lot of points into other skills that gain guard in Champion (especially Walking Fortress).

For your Knight-Enchanter, get Spirit Blade and Fade Shield. This makes it so that when you attack with Spirit Blade, you generate Barrier. Then, just get in close and attack with Spirit Blade.

Then, it's just a matter of having your mages keep up barriers, and if your warriors lose their guard, have them use abilities to gain some. Then it's just a matter of beating the dragon to death.
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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:07 pm

Nice. Smile

The irony is that I have more than 35 hours in game and I haven't run into a dragon yet... I really need to sit down and force myself to get things done with this game.

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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:34 pm

Hey! I got my first dragon! I killed Hivernal, one of the dragons in Emprise du Lion. The major advantage was that my character's staff is fire aspected. So his attacks were actually meaningful. I had to resurrect one of my fighters once or twice, I used all my healing potions, but I did it! However, I will never fight more than one dragon in a sitting. My hand was cramped from all the button smashing. Why can't they attack until further notice? Sad

I also followed an online advice and I crafted a new armor for my character. When you craft an armor with silverite, the class requirements are void. So I crafted the heavy armor of the dragon for my mage. Very Happy I think it has 171 armor. Plus, I used a fade-touched silverite as masterwork rune, so every time I hit something, it builds up my guard. If you also add my barrier regeneration on hit passive spell, I'm a whole lot harder to kill. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:56 pm

Congrats, looks like you're having fun. I'm currently lost in space so killing dragons is not very high on my list. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:00 pm

Maybe there are space dragons around? Never hurts to be prepared...

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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:56 pm

Calling Captain Kirk!

The Starship Enterprise went every where exploring the galaxy, so I'm sure it's nearby if either of you need help.

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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:03 pm

No no, they didn't go too much outside of the Alpha quadrant. Outside of Voyager's mission, the Delta quadrant is pretty much unexplored. Maybe there are dragons there! Sad

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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:24 pm

Now that I think of it I don't know if it qualifies but in The Last Federation you're playing some hydra like creature. It may be close enough. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:40 pm

So... you're (almost) playing a dragon? Then you don't have to worry! Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:19 pm

Well, it's not technically a dragon but it has six or seven heads so it's even more badass. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:23 pm

Back on the subject of DAI it's really sad (but predictable) that EA/Bioware are going for the horse armour style DLC. I may be paranoid but considering those I'd say that's probably why they've made it so difficult to mod the game, that way they don't have to contend with free (and sometimes better) content...

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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:25 pm

I don't even understand horses in DAI. "Wuh? They have horses in Skyrim? We must have them here too!".

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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:34 pm

Carabas wrote:
Back on the subject of DAI it's really sad (but predictable) that EA/Bioware are going for the horse armour style DLC. I may be paranoid but considering those I'd say that's probably why they've made it so difficult to mod the game, that way they don't have to contend with free (and sometimes better) content...

It was especially outrageous that they released their Jaws of Hakkon DLC, in which the player fights the Avvar. Then a few months later, they released a $5 DLC called the "Spoils of the Avvar" or something, which made the armor and weapons from the Jaws of Hakkon DLC available to the player. That wasn't included with the original DLC? That's some cynical BS.
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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:52 pm

Indeed, that's as bad as it gets.

Plus considering its only sold on Origin it makes getting a discount a less likely perspective (at least a big one).

The "good" thing about such DLCs on Steam is that most of them end up being sold for 25% of the regular price during sales and it makes buying them less of a rip off.

In any case I'll think twice before spending my money on more DAI stuff. I remember picking all the extra content for DAO and it ended up costing me a pretty penny (the game was great I'm not disputing that). My beef with Origin is that you can't use the stuff you own for the retail version of DAO with the Origin version of the game which is pretty silly when it's the same account. In other words I'd better stick to my DVDs if I ever want to replay DAO.

All that DLC nonsense is a bit of a turn off frankly especially when these days you can pick some pretty good games for the price of one of these packs that bring nothing but a few extra items that you may or may not use with your character...

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PostSubject: Re: Inquisition   Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:41 pm

One thing I can note : this is the first RPG sequel (and I use the term loosely) I have ever played where you meet your character(s) from a previous game. Usually, the sequel either has you playing the same character or a different time setting altogether. It's a really weird moment when you meet your previous character and you're not controlling him... Laughing Props for Inquisition for that moment.

(In a non-RPG, it did happened in Grand Theft Auto San Andreas, where you meet your character from Grand Theft Auto 3, in a very funny scene)

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