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 Dragon Age 2

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Nakia the Rogue
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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:19 pm

Please keep us updated as you play, Kana. It sounds as if they missed the charm of BG II which partly lay in its dialogue as well as as and intricate story that held together. Any puzzles like they had in the first game? I love those puzzles.

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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:35 pm

There have been a couple of puzzles. I remember at least two that took place in a segment in the Fade. As with the other things, I don't think they quite measured up to DA:O's puzzles.
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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:26 am

Thanks for the info, Kana. Keep it coming please.

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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:14 am

Thanks Kana. It seems that DA2 is more limited than DAO although there are some (very) interesting points in what you've posted. I may get the game when it's cheap in a year or two. Judging by what I've read it may be worth playing once or twice but it seems that it's really TOO easy (and that is not good -DAO was rather easy even on nightmare). Besides I don't like the way EA/Bioware are handling the franchise so I won't be spending too much money on that.

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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:19 am

Well, I finished DAII, so I'll give a few more thoughts.

I think the main strength of the game is the writing, characters and, in spite of what many players seem to be saying, the story.

It is not a tightly woven story, but I don't think that in itself is a flaw. It contains many story threads that are loosely related, and the connection between them may not be immediately recognizable. A character you encounter in chapter 1 might return in chapter 3 and end up playing a larger role in the grand scheme of things. So, while the game appears to be constructed almost entirely out of sidequests, those quests do ultimately build toward the conclusion.

I find it odd that Dragon Age: Origins was often criticized for it's cliched "save the world" plot, and now, I see many players complaining about the fact that they are not saving the world in this game. They have to deal with political strife and civil war, and there are no world-gobbling interdimensional space goblins to fight. I now begin to understand why so many games tell us the same story over and over again. The majority of players seem to want games to cater to their childhood wish-fulfillment fantasies.

Dragon Age II, thankfully, is not such a game.

Spoiler:
 

The characters in the game are also quite well developed. The companions, in particular, do not just exist to be your lackeys. They have lives and agendas of their own, and some of them are quite radical. Many of the worst disasters in Kirkwall are caused, either directly or indirectly, by Hawke's companions. I often find myself frustrated with the characters, but frustrated in a good way. I am frustrated because they seem real and they are very stubborn. The characters won't always do what I think they should do, and you can't just pass a speech check to make them fall in line, as you generally could with Origins.

There are, unfortunately, some pretty major problems with the game. As almost any review of the game will point out, they re-use areas constantly. Every warehouse and back alley in Kirkwall looks alike. This is compounded by the fact that you have to revisit the same areas over and over and over again. Outside of the five main city areas in Kirkwall, there are four other external areas in the surrounding countryside. You have to visit each of them in Chapter 1 to perform quests, then again in chapter 2, and yet again in chapter 3. Different events will occur in those areas in the different chapters, but it gets a bit tiring to be retracing your steps again and again.

This really leaves me feeling that the game was rushed, and adding more areas and dungeons layouts was one thing that was scrapped in order to release the game sooner. I wish they had taken more time to give the game more varied locations.

As for the combat, while I think it is not as good as Origins, I don't think it's completely awful. It basically ends up playing like a hack-and-slash. In many basic battles, it is enough to simply repeatedly press the "R" key to automatically attack the nearest target. I am not excited by the combat and it comes across as highly unrealistic, but I've played worse. It's flashy and fast, but shallow. Combat isn't high on my list of priorities with a game, so I would say the fights are passable. But if stimulating combat is what you are looking for, you won't find it here.

While I think DAII is Bioware's weakest release, it still did some quite daring things, and did some things very well. In fact, with another year of development and deeper combat, it could have been their best game in a decade. Unfortunately, we are left with what is, rather than what could have been.
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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:38 am

Despite the positive points it all seems rather bleak Kana.

Quote :
I find it odd that Dragon Age: Origins was often criticized for it's cliched "save the world" plot, and now, I see many players complaining about the fact that they are not saving the world in this game. They have to deal with political strife and civil war, and there are no world-gobbling interdimensional space goblins to fight. I now begin to understand why so many games tell us the same story over and over again. The majority of players seem to want games to cater to their childhood wish-fulfillment fantasies.

What about the whole Champion of Kirkwall thing? Whatever you do you have to become the Champion, right?

Most games force a Chosen One/Prophecy storyline down our throats. To a certain extent DAO did (being the only ones that can stop the Blight or die trying) but it seems to me that DA2 doesn't step away so much from the formula by making that Hawke guy the Champion. I haven't played the game (and I don't think I will anytime soon) but that whole Champion thing has been hyped as what the game was all about, rising from a lowly refugee to become the Champion of the City.

I think that it's not necessarily about what players want but about what game executives think that players want to spend their money for (that's the entertainment industry after all). Hence the sheer number of "epic" plots in which you get to defeat the bad guy, save the world and depending on the rating get the girl. It's the story of every James Bond movie and many sci-fi/fantasy movies (Star Wars, Indiana Jones, I could go on).

Let's face it an intricate game would require a mature audience with some attention span and that's simply not the target demographics for making a big hit. That's why games have been dumbed down and why this process is not going to end. What if the old fans are disgruntled? It's all about selling it to the kids. What if any form of strategy is being replaced by button smashing? It doesn't matter because casual gamers won't bother about the game being too easy or not thought provoking. They will have moved on to the next product -I mean game.

It's just like the movies, there's only a few work of art and work of love in a galaxy filled with crap because in a world where you can get rich making movies about transformer toys or amusement park attractions there is no place for great stories and character development. That's why we now have "action RPGs" (i.e. the kind of CRPGs in which you don't have to worry about character builds or inventory and in which smashing buttons will get you anywhere be it through fights or through cutscenes and dialogues) and why big companies are selling DLCs and no longer care about fixing their games because they are rushing their next product to the stores.

I was convinced that DA2 was a lazy attempt to cash in on DAO's good name (although I liked DAO it had its flaws). The fact that they simply took things away from the game instead of adding stuff was a clear indication. From what I've read and seen it seems pretty clear they didn't put that much effort into the sequel. The DA franchise could have been something special if they had made DAO better instead.

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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:57 am

The "Champion of Kirkwall" title is given to Hawke because he kills the Arishok, the leader of the Qunari (after the Arishok killed the Viscount of Kirkwall). I believe there are other ways to get the Qunari to leave, but I dueled the Arishok. I know they hyped up the "champion" thing, but it actually happens about two-thirds of the way through the game and it's not really the "main event".

The Champion title is more about Hawke gaining influence in Kirkwall, setting him up to be a catalyst in the explosive events in the final chapter.

Ironically, it is the game's primary antagonist that names Hawke the "Champion of Kirkwall".

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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:59 pm

Thanks for clearing that up.

The main problem is that IMO games can't cope with freedom (and maybe players can't either) so developers have to make sure your character doesn't stray away from the action. It's ironic but old games probably dealt with this better.

Diablo gave us the illusion of going through different levels because of the randomness of the loot and of the map, Might and Magic allowed us to explore an entire world without any level scaling. It would be nice to have a CRPG that allows freedom to do almost anything and at the same time tells a great story.

I wonder what Skyrim is going to be like. If the big flaws in Oblivion are ironed out it definitely has some potential.

It's a pity that the DA franchise is so narrow and constricted. Remember Leliana's Song? We were led to expect that the story would be taking place in Orlais but they simply recycled Denerim...

I'm currently playing Two Worlds and I can't help thinking how cool it would be to be able to explore and travel through all Ferelden (or the Free Marches) instead of having a few levels to clear out in random encounters on the world map. It's never going to happen though and hence the paradox. If you want to give players some freedom you have to give them an entire world to explore and not just a few areas (what seems to be the case in DA2). If you don't then the lack of focus just ruins immersion because the artificiality of the quests becomes too apparent. I think that the old Bioware formula works within certain limitations, i.e. within the frame of a story that will prevent the player from stepping out of the stage (just like in DAO you simply couldn't run away from the Blight) whereas a free world would allow the main quest to be postponed indefinitely (something that is hard to reconcile with the sense of urgency that plots usually require).

Baldur's Gate 1 is another good example. It provided a strong storyline but also allowed for a certain amount of exploration and questing unrelated to the main storyline, it was even possible to reach the level cap long before completing the main quest (that game had a linear main quest but enough to do in the city and elsewhere to provide some diversion). It's a pity that even DAO failed to live up to the old game (in DAO almost all the locations you visit are directly related to the main quest and being able to change the sequence in which these locations are visited doesn't add that much variety -especially since some encounters have been devised to prevent players from starting in Orzammar for instance).

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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:45 am

Freedom is a difficult thing to achieve in a computer game, especially if one wishes to tell any kind of story. A story has plot points and in order to tell the story, you must hit those plot points at some time.

And there are different kinds of freedom. There is the sandbox freedom to wander in an open world, and the freedom of choice that must be built into a quest's design. Few games present us with both kinds of freedom.

In Bioware games, you are forced to follow the main quest, but within that quest line, you are free to choose how your character reacts and influences events. It is important in a role playing game to be given opportunities to express your character.

Bethesda games allow you to wander freely and do some free form role play (like, should I sleep in the cheap inn or the expensive inn). However, when it comes to quests, most of the time your only choice is to do the quest or ignore it. In many cases, you don't even have the option to refuse the quest, so you can either do the quest, or leave it sitting in your quest log.

Now, I've only played open-world games made by Bethesda and Rockstar (Red Dead Redemption). Both of those developers create very linear quests, in spite of the free nature of their games.

Out of recent games, New Vegas probably comes closest to achieving a combination of these two types of freedom. You can choose to wander, but when you take on a quest, you can also choose to solve it in different ways. NV might have been far from perfect, but it showed that developers can still make games that present us with both kinds of freedom, which, in my opinion, is the ideal that all single player CRPGs should strive for.

I hope that Bethesda will have learned a thing or two from their Fallout games and will include more freedom of choice in Skyrim. If so, it might be a really great game.
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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:02 am

Thank you for the comments, Kana. Very good. I like the freedom to wander but would like more choices and consequences in the quests. I, too, hope Skyrim does this. From what I have read it seems too or at least to try. We will see.


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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:53 am

Good point about Fallout New Vegas although it is definitely a sandbox game à la Bethesda it has a main story with major choices (these choices are so big that you can't possibly see everything in the same playthrough -which prompted casual gamers to criticize the game for what is definitely a good thing).

The problem with DAO is that we don't have the illusion of freedom that we had playing BG1 (because the DAO world is so small and there is almost no places that are not related to the main plot). DAO is a very linear game. The choices only matter if you're really into the game (and RP) but if you take a step back to take a hard cold look at the game then you can but realize that most choices don't chance much in the story. The bosses that you have to fight may be slightly different and thus the loot you may get may not be the same but in the end the story plays out in the same way. Your character disposes of the bad guys and saves the day. It's very much like watching a movie. No matter what your choices are you're getting from A to Z and that's it (we can go as far as saying that in that respect DAO and GTA aren't so different -GTA provides a bigger world and more diversions between cutscenes but deep down it's the same idea).

Do you remember the
Spoiler:
 
situation in DAO? It was a major failure because of the problem of dealing with time since the game doesn't take time into account (BG1 did) and the huge problem that there was no real choice to be made once you knew that time didn't matter.

Spoiler:
 

IMO for a game to work perfectly the player has to be offered scope, real choices (with consequences) and different ways to complete missions. Otherwise there is no dilemma, no moral ambiguity, no drama.

You also need different ways to deal with any given quest. I remember playing Morrowind and being awed by the sheer possibilities and at the same time so disappointed by the quests. I expected that double crossing one's employer was possible and it was a huge let down to find out that my character couldn't even lie. I had played Fallout so much that I simply expected that (for the record in Two Worlds you can change your mind and turn on your quest giver).

So I concur, it would be absolutely great if Bethesda took notice of what has been done by Obsidian. It's about time The Elder Scrolls got a decent dialogue system and better quests that allow the player to do things differently.

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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:32 am

You're right about time not mattering in DAO. And you're right about that particular choice.

Spoiler:
 

Morrowind was my first CRPG. Before that, I had played Japanese RPGs, which, of course, have no choice whatsoever. I was blown away by the choices I did have in Morrowind, and have only played Western RPGs since. I didn't notice the flaws in the game's quest design until later, after I had played games like the original Fallouts. Then suddenly picking flowers for Ajira didn't seem so interesting. Bethesda does a lot of things really well, but their quest design is one area that has been lacking. It gets better with each game they release, so hopefully they will continue to improve in Skyrim.

Bioware has been my favorite developer for some time, although I recognize their flaws. I suppose one area where my JRPG roots still show is that I'm primarily a story player. It is only quests that keep me playing an RPG, so Bioware games are well suited to my play style. A large portion of the appeal of Bethesda's games (the meandering exploration just for its own sake) is completely lost on me. I almost never go into a dungeon unless a quest sends me there. A lot of players complained that there were so few non-quest related areas in New Vegas. I didn't even notice, because I never go to those areas in the first place.

Sorry, I know I've gotten way off topic. We were talking about Dragon Age II. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:15 am

What is funny is that there were some quests that had a time limit in BG1 (the Marek poison quest for instance). You can't have any sense of urgency if your character is living in a fantasy land in which time stands still.

I agree that to better appreciate a game you have to RP and think about what your character would do and discard what you know as a player.

Sometimes it's just fun to do your own things and ignore the main story as you're making your own story. Back when I first played Morrowind I used to stray from the main quest and roam around as there was always something to keep me busy, some bandits lurking behind the trees, some travellers or chance encounters to be met. It may not be the main focus of the game but it is fun.

Fallout New Vegas is almost perfect. There is only one thing that is better in Fallout 3 and that's the random encounters and random spawns. They didn't include any in Fallout New Vegas so it means that after a while you'll end up running into the same enemies/encounters every time you play the game and that is just bad for replay value. It's the only problem I have with this game and the only reason I took a break from playing Fallout New Vegas.

But you're right, we've strayed far away from DA2. Wink

Anyway, it was interesting to get a different perspective regarding DA2. What really let me down was the fact that you couldn't play a non human. Elves and dwarves were just awesome in DAO. I can't think of any reason why a dwarf or an elf couldn't have been a refugee or why they couldn't have become Champions (after all it's thanks to a feat of arms not for blending in that Hawke gets this title). The reason why I liked DAO so much was because it allowed us to play the underdog, the unlikely hero and that is something that I found deeply interesting. I've never cared that much for the human noble origin (I still have to get my human noble to the endgame).

Of course including them in DA2 would have meant more voice overs (possibly since elves and dwarves don't talk like humans) and taking into account this element in the dialogues and comments by NPCs. That woudln't have been impossible but since they didn't care to design original levels I guess playing a non human was at the bottom of the list.

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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:11 pm

Yes, playing as a non-human would have been nice. Trying out different races adds a lot to replayability. Origins was almost perfect in this regard, because choosing different races was more than just cosmetic. That was the whole point of the game being "Origins" and having different beginnings for different races. It really added a lot to the game. For instance, the political situation in Orzammar feels completely different when playing a dwarf casteless than it does with any other origin.

They certainly could have had different playable races in Dragon Age II, but I think going with a human protagonist was probably a marketing decision more than a development decision. Hawke's face was slapped on all the promotional materials. I can just picture the word "branding" being bandied about in team meetings.

They would have had to record more voice work, but it would have been achievable. Most of the characters you interact with in the game are human, so Hawke's race isn't really brought up all that often. The elves will occasionally call him "Shemlen" or "Shem" (although neither of the elven companions seem to mention his race at all). I think Varric's brother (a dwarf) calls Hawk "human" a once or twice. I'd say it's probably 15 or 20 lines at most that would need to be changed. And they probably could have even gotten away with using the same voices for all the races for the player character. Bodahn Feddic has a human voice (the same voice used for the Ferelden barkeeps in Origins), and I don't see people complaining about that. It would have been better to have dwarves and elves with British accents than no dwarves or elves at all.

One thing about the game I only just realized, and which again speaks to how much it was rushed and downsized... there are no female dwarves in the game. None. It's like in Mass Effect how there are no female krogans or turians. They already had models for female dwarves from the first game, so I really can't see any justification for them being left out. They were really hacking out features left and right to meet their deadline.

What I would really like would be the ability to play as a Qunari. I find them interesting with their rigid adherence to their code. They're like big, blue samurai.

Given that the trend at Bioware seems to be to offer less and less in each subsequent release, I guess I shouldn't hold my breath in hopes to play as more races in future released. I'll count myself lucky if I'm even able to play as a female in Dragon Age III.
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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:11 pm

They really dropped the ball as far as races are concerned. No female dwarves? That's just preposterous.

If you ever want to play a Qunari, or at least a Qunari sized character in DAO, I've posted a tutorial. IMO it works better with "
humans" but it can be done with other races (including dwarves). The only important thing is not to shapeshift as this will mess up the way the character looks.

All things considered, we can count ourselves lucky that we got DAO. Given the trend that seems to prevail DAO doesn't really fit in the direction Bioware seem to have taken. In many ways DAO was tailored for the fans of the BG series and that's probably why it was such a success. I don't really understand why they would scrap everything that people liked to make a more streamlined version of the game. I understand the need to experiment with media and bring something new to the formula (and my interest was piqued by the storytelling introduction to DA2) but they've eliminated too many things that made the first game enjoyable.

I can't speak about the combat since I haven't played DA2 but I don't understand why people were so critical about the combat in DAO. It did look a lot like Wow (and I've never played Wow either but many people said so including a real life friend of mine) but it worked and it allowed for strategy and tactical choices. The limits were strained in the Golems DLC however since the game couldn't handle high level characters that well and maintain a modicum of common sense. Playing the Golems DLC on Nightmare was not difficult but boring since it was all about gulping down healing potions and dishing damage to a foe with a large pool of hitpoints and certainly not about devising interesting tactics to take on a terrible foe.

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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:46 pm

Bioware has announced that anyone buying DA2 before April 30 will get Mass Effect 2 for the PC for free.

That seems like a great PR move but some of the fans are pissed because you don't get a new copy of Mass Effect 2 if you already own one (the free game is in fact a free download from the Bioware site) and the people who have preordered DA2 won't get ME2 either (the offer is for people who are buying the game now)... In other words with hindsight it was probably a better idea not to preorder the game. I don't know much about marketing techniques but how can it be a good thing to reward people who wait to buy your product and not people who preorder your product? Probably because if you're preordering the game they know you will buy it anyway and Bioware/EA is trying to give an incentive to buy the game to people who don't really cared about getting it in the first place.

Although Bioware says it's an offer for the "fans" it's not such a big deal either as many if not most of Bioware fans probably already own ME2.

Bottom line, they will do anything to boost their sales...

My advice to anyone who hasn't bought DA2 yet and may be considering buying it is to wait for a cheaper patched complete edition.

Like I said I may not know much about marketing and stuff but I know that a good product sells itself, it may take more time but it will eventually get there. The DA franchise has been hyped so much it's rather silly. We all know that ads sell games but a really great game will get the recognition it deserves no matter what whereas some rushed piece of crap may sell a gazillion of copies worldwide but it will also leave a bad aftertaste to players who feel like they've been cheated by the big company.

There is no doubt that Bioware is more interested into boosting its sales no matter what. There is nothing wrong about that but the obviousness of it all reeks of crass materialism and base consumerism. The fads and the hype mean one thing and that's the only reason to preorder a game product is because you succumb to the siren's call. Especially since you can get a much better deal if you wait a few months.

It doesn't have anything to do with the intrinsic value of the product. These games are supposed to cater to a mature audience but actually it doesn't. It treats people like kids on the playground, kids who need the latest sneakers to feel cool.

I used to respect Bioware for the titles they've been making but all those marketing ploys are just shameless. It's the last straw that breaks the camel's back.

For me the turning point was the ingame advertising of the Warden's Keep DLC in the party camp in DAO. They got my money but they lost my respect. You buy a product with content that has been taken away so they can sell you day one DLCs and the worst thing is people keep asking for more -even if all these DLCs are crap and even if the game never gets fully patched or the bugs fixed. If this trend keeps going on we will end up buying templates that will need us to log in online and use our credit cards to get the entire game. Do you want to proceed to the next level? If so add to cart and please go to check out.

It's utterly shallow and I think no mature player/consumer should give in.

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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:51 pm

Perhaps the sales of Dragon Age have been a lot less than they thought, and they've got a warehouse full to shift Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:38 pm

Smile They may also have a stockpile of ME2. I understand the ME2 wa not as good as ME2.

I suspect that after DA:O a lot of people (including me) will do as Cara says. Wait . If EA doesn't change its attitude and stop trying to baboozle people into spending a lot of money they will be losing more and more people. Fool me once shame on you; fool me twice shame on me. Expensive DCLs that aren't even that great don't make a game.

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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:24 pm

DA2 is selling very well actually. They're just trying to sell even more copies. There is no reason why DA2 shouldn't sell, it's a sequel to a very successful title and you can go into a store without seeing some adverts for the game.

Waiting is indeed the smart thing to do as you can save a LOT of money by waiting a few months. I may have enjoyed DAO but I've never spent that much money on a game (once you take into account every DLC and the expansion you almost triple the price of the game and if the expansion was ok the DLC were either way too short or sucked).

I'm really suspicious of any offer coming from Bioware/EA at the moment. We don't even know if the game will get a final patch and what DLC are going to be released (for DAO we were promised two years of DLC and it's an understatement to say that Bioware didn't deliver in fact they never fully patched the game). Not to mention the fact that there is no news of a toolset for DA2. At least DAO had a toolset and support for modders and players.

I don't care about paying extra money to beta test a game that may not get patched (and Bioware won't be able to count on modders making unofficial patches to fix their bugs). I also remember a certain patch for DAO that actually broke things in the game instead of fixing them. Once bitten, twice shy.

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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:46 pm

I'm really sick of the DLC racket. It was great when developers used to release finished, complete games. Then when I saw Bethesda offering horse armor for sale, I thought, this idea isn't going to work. People won't fall for this. I wish I had been wrong.

Their DLC for ME2 has been particularly shameless, selling DLC that give alternate outfits for your team mates. Perhaps I'm being cynical, but I suspect that was the main reason they didn't allow you to change companion armor... so you'd have to pay for it instead. If I'm right, I suspect we'll see some alternate companion appearance packs being released for DAII.

The only way for us to change their minds is to refuse to buy DLC. I'm currently resisting the urge to buy the new ME2 DLC. I like the game a lot, but I don't want to encourage this bs any longer.
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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:09 pm

Fight the urge Kana! Wink

The problem is that because of DLC it's highly unlikely that developers will make full expansions. In that respect Awakening was unexpected and a good surprise (the fact that it had more bugs than the original game was another problem).

I love Shivering Isles for Oblivion but I agree that DLC that add purely cosmetic things and or silly stuff like items are useless and shameless.

I haven't played Dead Money for Fallout New Vegas yet but judging by Fallout 3 DLC I can say that Fallout 3 DLC offered enough content to keep you busy for a few hours... I can't say that about DAO DLC which can be played in thirty minutes (up to an hour if you're being thorough and check every nooks and crannies).

IMO it's not that bad when modders get a toolset and can create free stuff for other players. For instance even if the Dead Money DLC was not available to PC and PS3 players for months, PC players could take advantage of user made mods to pass the time. Now if there is no toolset it makes modding much harder for most of us (especially if you're looking to use game assets or make more elaborate modifications). I'm not saying that Bioware/EA hasn't released a toolset because they wanted to sell more DLC but the idea has crossed my mind... After all some fanmade adventure/quest mods for DAO were much better than the official DLC and they were free...

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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:49 am

Never look a figt horse in the mouth. If it is free just be appreciative even if you don't like. Smile I loved the dog slot mod that a user made for DA:O and there was a mod that added storage to the camp site. User made mods can add hours of fun to a game and extend its playable life and popularity. I don't think Oblivion would have the popularity that it does without all the mods that can be added.

What I didn't like about DA:O's DLCs was the cost for something that did not IMO add much to the game. I didn't do Awaakening because of the cost. I vote with my wallet. The Grey Wardens Keep was a disapoi8ntment.

I loved Shivering Isles . I consider it better than the original game. Exotic and fun to play.

The antagonist in game is important too. Oblivion did very well at this I think. One thing I never see mention is the thoughtfulness that went into Oblivion. I found a depth there that is unusual. Not all evil is evil. Depends whose side you are on. Oblivion made me think as I played. There was also a subtle humour that I enjoyed.

The concept of the Origins in DA:O was good and certainly made the game replayable. There was a lot in DA:O that I enjoyed and thought well done I just didn't like the attitude that the player is a sucker to be milked. Sure the game developers and publishers are in it to make money but if they don't take the needs and likes of the buyer into consideration their product isn't worth much.

If EA/Bioware have a stockpile of DA2 and ME2 I hope they have learned something. Game players have choices and do not need to settle for expensive second best.

Oblivion and DA:O cost me about the same to buy but Oblivion game me years of playing fun and DA:O only gave me a few months. With all its faults Oblivion/Morrowind make me look forward to SKYrim. DA:O makes me leery of DA2.

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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:40 am

Nakia the Rogue wrote:
I loved the dog slot mod that a user made for DA:O and there was a mod that added storage to the camp site.

I should mention, both of those mods have basically been integrated into DAII. The Black Emporium DLC (which is free with purchase) comes with a summonable mubari which doesn't take up a party slot. Additionally, there is a storage chest in both of Hawke's homes that you can use throughout the game.

Sort of like with Fallout: New Vegas, there were clearly a few mod ideas that they took and used.
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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:10 am

Glad to hear that, Kana, it shows that they are checking what people want and like. That is a step in the right direction.

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PostSubject: Re: Dragon Age 2   Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:38 am

It's also a matter of common sense and convenience since having storage facilities in a player's home is only sensible.

That reminds me that Warden's Keep had been advertised as a stronghold for the PC but as it turned out you couldn't even go back inside the keep once you had dealt with Dryden...

That's why mods are important. They give us some extra stuff to make the game more personal.

Kana wrote:
Sort of like with Fallout: New Vegas, there were clearly a few mod ideas that they took and used.

Definitely. I love the fact that they've included a disguise system in Fallout New Vegas as I've been one of the modders who tried to implement this in Fallout 3 (my mod didn't even require the script extender).

I think that clever developers know that the modding community can do a lot for a PC game -Nakia's made this point for Oblivion and the same can be said about Fallout 3 (an ok game unmodded but a game that rises to great heights when you mod it to the limit).

I'm looking forward to playing The Witcher 2 because of the ongoing support and the free modules that we got for the first Witcher game. That was simply great to see a developer patch the game and allow players to download extra content for free (players could upgrade their game to the enhanced edition for free!) they even allowed a modder to release a Witcher mod for DAO!

Bioware used to patch their games. After all NWN was supported for many years and much was added to the game this way. I wish the same could be said about Dragon Age.

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