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 Civilization VI

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Carabas
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PostSubject: Civilization VI   Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:00 pm

The hype is absolutely crazy... I don't know how much money they've spent on marketing but it's getting really hard to avoid being bombed with information regarding the new version of civ.

After looking at a gameplay video it's obvious that they've taken quite a few pages from Amplitude's Endless Legend (which is the right move considering how good this game is).

What I find baffling is their choice of leader to represent France:


She didn't actually reign but was the power behind the throne and she wasn't even French (she was born in Florence iirc) although we could argue that Napoleon wasn't French either. Razz

That is just silly.  lol!

"She was the most powerful European queen of the 16th century" is not something that will please the English considering that Queen Elizabeth I ruled during the 16th century (but it's doubtful she was seen as powerful before the defeat of the Spanish Armada).

Catherine De Medici was Queen Consort and Regent, not a ruler in her own right and she is better known in history for the Saint Bartholomew massacre.

All in all I think it's a fairly dubious choice and to me Queen Victoria for the English seems to be a much more relevant historical figure.

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PostSubject: Re: Civilization VI   Sat Aug 06, 2016 2:07 am

It's weird, I wrote a full reply to your post, but it vanished without a trace. The only thing I can think of is I closed the window before the reply was sent, but I was sure I have posted it. Neutral

I was saying that after 5 Civ games, they probably feel like they have to "mix it up" a little. But historical figures are historical figures. I know the roman empire span hundreds of years, but if you think of two noteworthy characters, it's Julius Ceasar and Augustus, no matter how many previous games they were in. I think it's odd to put Catherine de Medici.

Is it just me, or does the gameplay looks a lot like Civ 5?

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PostSubject: Re: Civilization VI   Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:10 am

It's definitely not you. Wink

To me it looks like they took Civ 5 mixed it up with Endless Legends and made the leaders look a bit more like cartoon characters to get that vibrant family friendly look.

I agree about noteworthy characters but what I find baffling is that there are countless characters who are better suited than the one they've picked for the French. Hell if they didn't want an official ruler they could have picked Armand Jean du Plessis Cardinal de Richelieu who was a statesman, strategist and the best example of what we call the power behind the throne. And I'm saying that only because I'm discarding all the French kings and trying to be in keeping with the mechanics they have put forward for France.

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PostSubject: Re: Civilization VI   Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:39 am

Hey, could be worse -- the French could be DLC

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PostSubject: Re: Civilization VI   Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:02 am

Just like in that disgrace known as Battlefield 1 that's what you mean?

Fucking EA bloody idiots greedy arse wipers they know no shame taking away France and Russia so they can focus on Murica and please their demographics.

So yes I guess it could be worse...

If I had my way I would make Charlemagne the leader of the French civ just to piss off Germans (I'm being petty but frankly they do deserve it and it would remind them of our shared history) and give the French some kick ass knights as the unique unit (preferably something that comes into play before the game is over would be nice for a change) and a unique building focused on wine and cheese making (because that's what we do best). Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Civilization VI   Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:30 pm

Yup, that's exactly what I was referencing. I was taking the piss but your reaction never fails to entertain Laughing

Of course Murica has an exaggerated role. In their little revisionist history they defeated Hitler, Stalin, the Japs, stopped the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, all with no helo from anyone because as we all know, Murica is freedom, Murics is the greatest nation in the world...

Laughing

Alright, enough of my derailing this thread Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Civilization VI   Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:15 pm

You forgot Independance Day and the alien invasion in your list.

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PostSubject: Re: Civilization VI   Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:22 pm

So I did -- my bad Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Civilization VI   Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:55 am

Pardon my French but screw Firaxis as well. Civ has never been about real world history but they've always pretended that it was. Adding that leader to the roster simply because she is a woman and they want to spice things up is bullshit. Fucking revisionists that's what they are.

I'm sick and tired of all that nonsense and frankly the choices they've made for other civs (which should be called nations if it wasn't some PR gimmick) are not necessarily better.

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PostSubject: Re: Civilization VI   Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:34 am

Civilization VI and 2 DLC packs for 12 bucks with the Humble Monthly.

Sure you will be getting a few extra games when the bundle goes live (if you're lucky you may not already have them in your library) but when it comes to Civ 6 you will be stuck with having to buy the rest of the DLC one by one (and they don't go on sale all that much) so you may be better off grabbing the Deluxe Edition that comes with all the smaller DLCs instead.

Last but not least, the first real expansion is scheduled for next month so it's difficult not to think that the publisher decided to put the game in this bundle to rope people in and sell more copies of the expansion (especially considering that the bundle comes literally one day after the Christmas sale when the base game alone was sold for twice as much).

Maybe Tri can shed some light on whether the base game alone can be fun. All I've read online is a bit confusing and not very encouraging and I don't mind the game looking like a cartoon but reports of the AI being brain dead and diplomacy being as useful as a third nipple are not encouraging. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Civilization VI   Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:36 pm

I remember nabbing it full price (first time in ages that I bought a full price game) because I was psyched to be playing Civ again. I was hoping they fixed Civ 5's mistakes. Well, they didn't. They built on Civ 5's mistakes, in a bad way. I think they tried to taylor it to the casual gamer.

According to Steam, I have 11 hours put in for Civ 6, but I don't even remember the game. The only things I truly remember is that workers can only build three improvements before they're destroyed and it's merchants that create roads while establishing a trade link. I think I restarted three or four times because I just couldn't get into it. Not a good sign.

Since I just completed Andromeda, I might reinstall Civ 6 and give you a fresher perspective.

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PostSubject: Re: Civilization VI   Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:28 pm

That would be great as we share many interests when it comes to games. I'm still wondering if it's worth picking for the base game alone. Getting the DLC is way too expensive at the moment and with the expansion coming it's completely pointless.

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PostSubject: Re: Civilization VI   Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:20 pm

I was typing this message in the CK2 thread, but thought it would be more appropriate here :

Carabas wrote:
Don't you worry about Civ 6, the fact that you can't summon the energy to get back into that game is all I need to know... Things may improve with the expansion but I doubt that.

Yeah, kind of. I have a lot of trouble stopping playing Civ 2 to 4, even to eat. I didn't wholely enjoy Civ 5, but I still had good runs. There isn't one truly horrendous thing about Civ 6, it's just a lot of smaller details that are bothersome (like I said in the Civ 6 page, it feels tailored to casual gamers that haven't played Civ before). Like I said, workers have 3 "charges", roads are build by merchant while establishing trade routes (which can be pillaged at any time by any enemy).

Technology and civics are two distinct branches, both can be researched simultaneously. Every civic research nets you different "cards". Each type of different government gives you different possibilities of matching cards (ex : you have four different military cards (one gives you a bonus against barbarians, one gives you a bonus to unit construction, etc) and four different urbanism cards (one gives a bonus to nearby tiles, another a bonus to settler construction, etc). The most basic form of government lets you use a card of each. Another form might let you use two military cards and one urbanism card. Another one military card, three urbanism card, etc. There are also, later in the game, cards just for wonders, etc.

There are also housing. Your city stops growing if there isn't enough housing for your citizens. You get more housing by constructing nearby farms or mines or improvements like granaries. And you also have different districts (holy district, arts district, ect) in which you construct special buildings, like shrines. But you have to construct your district on a unoccupied adjacent tile to your city. Which makes you lose some space for improvement.  

And you can also send envoys to city states. After certain thresholds of envoys, you get different perks.

Like I said, it's not important stuff, but a lot of these details are just weird and don't mash well in the game, IMO. And I'm not even going to talk about the bad leader choices in the game.

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PostSubject: Re: Civilization VI   Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:08 pm

I can't get over their choice for France...

In any case thanks for the detailed feedback, I value your opinion especially considering that you're a long time Civ player and now thanks to you I have a much clearer image of what the game is about and I'm not thrilled.

It's a bit disappointing but considering I still have to play Beyond Earth, Endless Legend and Oriental Empires I guess I won't miss it.

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PostSubject: Re: Civilization VI   Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:38 pm

Turns out there are modded French leaders which means not having to deal with such a terrible design decision:


I had an extra 10% off for the monthly bundle so I decided to go for it (considering Owlboy is in it's definitely worth the asking price even if I end up not being so thrilled by Civ 6 -my expectations aren't that high anyway).

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PostSubject: Re: Civilization VI   Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:58 pm

I've played a little and although I miss some of the old leaders there is one thing I really like and it's the existence of a playable earth map with real starting locations. That's something that took some work when playing civ 5 so I'm glad it's there. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Civilization VI   Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:05 pm

So you decided to buy Civ 6 after all? What is your first impressions of the game?

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PostSubject: Re: Civilization VI   Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:26 pm

Yes, got the whole bundle for $10.80 so that's more than fair (considering Owlboy was included too).

My expectations are really low and I'm not thrilled by the leaders since they are just ridiculous. I mean I can understand wanting to shift things around but some of the options are simply underwhelming (and the ones that sound good are DLC only).

As far as civilisations are concerned it's pretty clear to me that we're talking about nations and not real civilisations (it's been true for a while now but apart from it being a selling point there is no valid justification for calling them that).

The game looks really good especially since I don't mind the cartoon art they're going for and at a glance the gameplay is not that different from Civ 5 (which is why I understand what you had posted about the game building up on 5).

It's too early to say but looking at some of the perks of some of the civs I have doubts about the balance of the game. Not that it matters as I don't play multiplayer but still.

I've started a game as Gilgamesh and messed around a bit for a few turns. My impression is that Marathon is really too slow so I think I'll switch to epic. Gilgamesh didn't look like it matches the way I want to be playing the game so I may give Saladin a try (religion and science is an interesting mix plus you are assured to get a great prophet) as the unique unit seems tailored for mid game fights. The other leader I would like to try is Montezuma. I have some fond memories of a Civ 5 diplomatic victory with Monty and that was just glorious (going against the more obvious domination victory was really fun). The ability to get workers thanks to early wars seems like fun but that also means having to focus on early fights with other civs (and I tend to find the idea of an early rush to be a bit too gamey).

Granted, I've only played a little but what I played so far didn't feel worse than Civ 5 and it would seem that the district thing (that they may have borrowed from Endless Legend) could help with making city development a bit more interesting.

The real test will be mid and late game especially if diplomacy suck and the AI is crap. But considering I expect both to be true my expectations are not that high.

EDIT: I started a game as Tomyris (Scythia) somewhere at the limit between Europe and Asia with the goal of taking over Europe if I can manage that (Gorgo and Trajan will have to go if I want to take over). The Scythian bonus for combat is incredibly good in order to limit casualties (for every unit defeated you get some HP back). I'm playing on Prince but I'm still trying to figure things out with all the changes and additions. I kinda like the fact that you don't have to build roads or that you don't have to wait for your worker to build stuff (don't really mind the three uses). The Eureka thing is actually a nice addition and makes going through some routine events worthwhile (things like fighting barbarians, taking an outpost). The diplomacy doesn't seem to be any better than in Civ 5 and that's a huge letdown but overall I'm actually liking it so far.

EDIT2: I've been playing a little more and I took out Gorgo, Trajan and Gilgamesh and conquered Cleopatra's capital. I'm playing on Prince but it feels more like Settler difficulty. The enemy AI is not doing very well in terms of empire building and the only reason I didn't steamroll over Egypt is because I grew complacent and only took a few units with me... Qin Shi Huang declared war on me but his entire offensive force was made of two units and after a few skirmishes he asked for peace (and is now paying a tribute). I met Mvemba a Nzinga who didn't look like he had accomplished much and I'm wondering if Montezuma is being as passive as all these guys considering he is on his own in America...

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PostSubject: Re: Civilization VI   Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:00 am

I've finished my first (and probably only) game.

I didn't care much for most of the quotes, they've traded the more serious quotes with some cheesy ones and it felt a bit off to me. I guess they thought putting quotes from Terry Pratchett, Kevin Bacon or Courtney Cox would increase the appeal but I don't care for that sort of thing.

It's not the problem with the game though.

The Eureka system is cool, separating technologies and policies works fine and the City State system is incredibly better than the one Civ 5 used.

The real problem is that the AI is dumb as a bag of bricks.

I played on Prince difficulty and it felt like I was playing Settler (and I'm not the best Civ player and I haven't played a full civ game in a long time).

The game couldn't put up a fight. There was no contest whatsoever. The only reason I went for a Science victory was to go through the entire tech tree and see what the game had to offer.

I never even built a settler since the AI was nice enough to provide them for me (apparently sending a settler next to an occupied city in wartime while enemy units are nearby is a good idea).

The AI leaders keep berating me for no reason. Telling me I was going bankrupt when I was rolling in money or that I wasn't putting up a fight when I had just taken out an entire civ from the game... That wasn't even funny.

Monty kept sending hordes of missionaries my way to try and convert my cities which was a pain and forced me to spend faith points to counter them and added to the micromanagement without being any fun (if missionaries were annoying in Civ 5 they're even worse in this game).

They can push as many expansions and DLC as long as they don't fix their AI this game will remain a mess, a lovely looking and charming mess but a mess nonetheless.

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PostSubject: Re: Civilization VI   Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:33 pm

Hahaha, wow. I hadn't gotten very far in any of my games. I haven't even declared war or been attacked, so good to know the AI is horrible before plunging head first into the game. Laughing

But I wasn't a fan of the civics "cards" system. That was a little too much gamey for me. I liked constructing your religion, though. That aspect was rather well thought out.

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PostSubject: Re: Civilization VI   Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:15 pm

I have to admit that going back to Civ 5 I'm going to miss the City State mechanics because envoys did make sense and it wasn't about paying bribes.

The Eureka moments were rather nice as well and I didn't mind the cards so much (it's more a question of presentation, I don't think it's that different from the way it worked in Civ 4).

But the problem is that I played on Prince and the AI never threatened me. The only annoyance was Monty swarming me with missionaries (which I countered by spending all my faith on missionaries of my own).

Like I said I'm not that good a civ player these days (I used to play a lot more a few years back) and even if I still have a few tricks down my sleeve I shouldn't have been able to win so effortlessly on Prince...

I couldn't do that with Civ 4, not without breaking a sweat and knowing what I was doing (which wasn't the case here as I was figuring out the new mechanics as I played).

The whole thing is bloody ridiculous.

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PostSubject: Re: Civilization VI   Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:42 pm

Yes, you have a good point on the City state mechanic. I'd even say the same applies to the other civs. I was pleasantly surprised you needed to send an envoy to establish an embassy in order to get to know the other civ and know exactly why that civ likes or dislikes you. Much more realistic. A sort of gameplay fog of war. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Civilization VI   Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:07 pm

Indeed! I like your way of phrasing it.

If only the AI was fairly decent it would be a fine addition to the Civ series.

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