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 Crusaders Kings 2

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:59 pm

Laughing wow! That is quite the achievement Cara! Congrats! I think you're quite better than me, I think I would have abandoned the game at the first bump. And I think the most points I got for a ruler when he died was 3 or 4 thousand. You have 46 thousand points in the bank, with at least another 8 000 coming. You're quite good at this game... Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:52 am

Thanks! I'm not that good, I started in 867 so that explains the high score -and if you look at the date it's Christmas Eve!  santa 

True, it has been a bumpy road but I did get lucky with my two last rulers (if the previous king hadn't made it in his 50s I wouldn't have been able to stabilize the realm).  

Besides I like the 867 start. Sure you have vikings messing with your holdings (not much of a problem in Lyon but still) but you don't have the HRE. Big empires are a pain when you're trying to get your place in the sun. In my current game the Byzantine Empire is Catholic so I can't even count on religious dissent to take it down a peg.

In the end the thing that matters is to never give up because as long as you have an heir you can always make a come back.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:30 pm

Things are going well. I haven't been able to change the laws of Aquitaine so I may have my ruler's older son killed in order to keep the realm together especially since the younger (and ambitious) son is now married to the Queen of Ireland and Wales. I'm still considering the pros and cons.

As for now my Emperor is 50 and he has managed to conquer most of Italy:

Spoiler:
 

I love when a plan comes together. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:01 pm

Haha, nice job Cara! Smile

Do you have any advice to get more territory? My problem is that I focus so much on a county or duchy that I become oblivious to other opportunities. Right now, in my game, I have two three counties duchies. I also have one county in a five counties duchy. My chancellor is flying around the other 4 counties to fabricate claims, but it takes forever. And I'm not one to have a lot of patience in orchestrating territory through marriage... :/

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:49 am

If you look at my screenshots you can see that in 15 years I moved from 290 to 491 holdings simply because I was able to take over an entire Kingdom in one war (plus some De Jure claims that helped restore Italy to its former glory).

It's exactly what you've said: you have to be an opportunist. Furthermore you have to decide what the best return can be so you don't wage war for nothing or don't end up losing (which can happen if you failed to anticipate an enemy coalition).

As a rule I always marry my female characters matrilineally, it's a great way to get people from your dynasty to have claims that you can use later. It's also a great way to end up having people of your dynasty in high places (and it's funny when you realize that some King or big guy is actually a relative that was born from one of your arranged weddings several generations before).

As for males I look for short term return. Getting a Duchess to marry a guy from your line is a win win. For your ruler you can try to get the heiress to a Kingdom to marry your heir so if you're lucky their offspring will inherit from both parents. Of course when you're only a Duke you may have to set your aim a bit lower and get someone who is second or third in line. It may not pay off but worse case scenario you get a claim which isn't that bad. Be careful with assassination as it can be costly or it can take time if you use the plot option (which I prefer). It should be a last resort because if you are exposed you get a serious hit to your reputation (and Kinslayer is no joke unless you can get the Pope to cancel it).

Forging claims is not my favourite way of doing it... It's really random and it can take a very long time or forever if you're not lucky. It's still something that must be done when you don't have an alternative.

It's better to have someone of your dynasty who can become your vassals if you manage to get them the county they have a claim to. It's much trickier with people who are not from your dynasty because you have to make sure that they are part of your De Jure domain if you want them to become your vassals.

That being said De Jure claims are great when you can press these claims for your own benefit. They are awesome if you're a Duke and the counties that you don't control are not in your King's realm because in that case you can count on your Liege to fight these wars for you. So if you have a liege who likes you (as it should be) it's going to be important that you are the top dog in your De Jure duchy in order to be the one who will get the title. If you're independent you will want to get to become a petty king as fast as possible so you can have counts as vassals and become king.

What I've learned is that as you move up to King level you don't need many counties because you start getting retinues whereas as a Count every county counts (pun intended).

Truthfully I don't find expansion so difficult. The hard part is to remain in control especially during the transition period when your heir is not 16 yet and all your vassals are banding together to tear him (or her) to pieces. Later on it's easier but you always have to keep an eye on your vassals and be ready to crush rebellions and send them to your dungeons if they are too dangerous, release them for the merciful bonus if they are simply misguided or strip them of a title if you can afford it without getting a tyranny penalty.

I don't know if what I'm typing really helps as you know that already. I think you should try to decide who is going to be your "ally" in the 5 county duchy. Preferably someone with a female heir that you will marry with your own heir. You can also look for disgruntled people with claims over these counties and either marry them to your family (so you can inherit their claims) or invite them and give them a barony (so they become your vassal) and press their claims.

At times it can become pretty complex and I'm still learning from my mistakes. My real advice would be to look for characters who can bring huge tracks of lands when you're arranging a marriage. Stats may be nice but there is no insurance that your Genius wife will have a Genius son whereas your average Duchess will be sure to pass along her titles to her heir. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:26 pm

Oh jeez, I didn't know your dynasty members or vassals, if their claim is pushed that the land becomes part of yours automatically. I had a character who was king of Toulouse and pushed his wife's claim on Provence, thinking the land would fall to me (even if it was another kingdom). But she ruled Provence on her own, with her land still in HRE territory. I thought it was the same to all claim pushed if you don't have a de Jure right to it. Jeez, I've wasted a lot of time and opportunities... :/

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:01 am

You can see that in game in the tooltip, it will state the conditions under which a claimant will become your vassal.

Remember that you have to be of a higher rank. My emperor could make his kinswoman his vassal because she became a queen, so if you're a king you can only get dukes as vassals.

Your spouse's titles don't become your titles. If you're married to a queen you get the king title in name only, you don't get all the perks and if your wife doesn't get a child you will certainly lose that title when she dies.

I'm not sure about your example because I recall that once you become a king in the HRE you gain your independence so I don't know how that computes with your wife being a vassal of the HRE.

It's a very complex game and after all these hours spent playing I'm still learning things all the time.

For instance at the moment I'm trying to improve my knowledge of the combat system in order to take advantage of flanking, terrain and things like that. I've been ignoring that for too long.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:08 pm

Whoah, hey, we have a thread for this.

I bought the game on impulse about a week ago, after finding a 50% off coupon in my Steam inventory. I'm completely loving it so far! Started off the easy way, as King Murchad of Munster, and the only thing keeping me from forming the Kingdom of Ireland at this point is the fact that I don't have enough money.

Seriously, great game. It's so refreshingly complex it almost hurts. But in a really good way.
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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:27 am

Glad you like it! My only problem with this game is that it is the ultimate time sink and after playing entire nights when I had to work the next day I've decided that I would only play this game during the weekend.

It's all a matter of preference but I much prefer starting out as a Count, it makes your progress in the game much more satisfying although I can understand the appeal of playing a higher ranking noble to get the feel of the game.

Playing as a King is entirely different when it comes to gameplay and you'll find out soon enough that in this game the problem is not getting the crown but keeping it. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:54 pm

I tried to start as a Count at first (Earl Murchad of Dublin), but it was taking too long for me. I couldn't create a duchy for de jure claims without 51% of the land, I couldn't use my current trick of inviting claimants, making them vassals and pressing their claims, as giving them my land would make them independent, and I just generally felt like I had less control. Starting as a Duke has improved my experience exponentially.

One thing I love about this game is seeing what alternate path history takes. I've played two games, and so far they've been radically different even without my intervention. In the first, Harald Hardrada didn't die at Stamford Bridge, and instead led a Norwegian conquest of all England, ruling it for about ten years before massive parts of it started to rebel. In my current game, he was defeated by Harold II, but William II never made it to England. Instead, Normandy declared independence from France, followed by Burgundy, and the two waged war on France and were defeated. William the Bastard was imprisoned by the French king.

I find stuff like this endlessly entertaining to watch.
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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:07 pm

It's definitely something that adds to the experience. Smile

Starting as a count you have to fake claims and save gold to get mercs so you can win a quick war. Having a liege makes for a different experience but it doesn't mean that you can't expand and eventually break free.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:36 am

Well, King Murchad of Munster officially became King Murchad of Ireland today, at just 53 years young. Every county except Breifne immediately swore fealty, and Breifne was quickly conquered with just my vassals' men (as I had like five gold and couldn't raise my own army).

I also have a claim on Brittany that I finally decided to go ahead and use, with Wales as my ally. I'm currently leading an army 5,000 men strong into Vannes to take it from King Alan VI. Only problem here is that, since it's my son's wife's weak claim, she's the one who'll get Brittany, and she's too old at this point to give my son any children (they already have none), so it won't be inherited to my heir's heir. Any suggestions on how to press her claim and then get Brittany for myself?
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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:23 am

Other than going through the process of faking claims which can be long and expensive the other solution is marriage. I'm afraid that right now as you can see you won't benefit from this war unless her heir is a woman that you can marry to your own heir (possibly another son) preferably before she inherits. If the heir is male see if there is a single female in line for the title and get rid of him so that female heir can get married to your son (if she is married you can always try to get her husband killed but it gets a lot more complicated if she already has children of her own).

That's just some ideas. From what I understand of the situation I think you've made a mistake by pressing this claim without an existing heir. It's not a big mistake though. Even if you don't get to keep the kingdom you will get some prestige and an ally on the continent (for a few years anyway).

My advice would be to start saving money for a rainy day because you can be certain that sooner or later you will have a rebellion on your hands and in that case hiring mercs may be the only thing that will keep you on your throne.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:06 pm

I agree that the game is much more satisfying when starting from a count and going up. I'm the kind of player that likes to methodically build things, so I dislike being the king on the hill and just extinguish fires.

For your game, I'd have to concur with Cara. You should have waited a little bit before declaring war, as you could have mapped the future and see how much that war would have gained you. But it's not that big of a mistake. Worst case scenario, if you win the war, you will get some prestige off it.

And why is your son's wife so old? Was she already old when you married them? How old is the son?

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:41 am

Well, I've played a lot since then. I pretty easily got Brittany by inviting a claimant to my court, giving him a tiny strip of land in Scotland I'd just won, then pressing his claim. Brittany is currently undergoing a war between like five different factions, but whoever wins, I still get it, so it doesn't matter. I'm also expanding pretty heavily into Scotland (they got pretty frakked up and splintered early on, though they're reforming now). I have a claim on Iceland, but pressing it would mean going to war with Norway, which I simply can't do at this point (maybe with French backing, but they're busy warring with Aquitaine and won't heed my call to arms). I've also discovered my son is absolutely terrible. Seriously, he has Gluttonous, Greedy, Chaste, Craven, Cruel, and all this other terrible stuff. I'd like to kill him, but I can't plot to kill my son and I don't have the money to assassinate him.

His wife was really old because I was dumb and married him off for a weak claim. I'm kinda saving and reloading a bit in this game, just to test how things turn out and see what I can and can't do. It's a learning tool, even if it is cheating.
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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:03 pm

It's a single player game so as long as you enjoy it there is no problem. Reloading takes the challenge away but starting on ironman in this game is asking for a world of trouble (the game will often give you a crappy hand so you have to expect that).

As for being terrible... I had a son with zero in each and every stat and that is simply hilarious.

You could get him killed by sending him to war leading troops against incredible odds. Of course if you're not lucky he will only get maimed.  Razz 

By the way CK2 is going to include India with the next DLC. It's going to be even better. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:02 pm

I restarted my game at CKII : Game of Thrones mod. I just missed too much opportunities by not understanding that you could annex different counties by inviting claimants, giving them a title, then pushing their claim. I had a perfect opportunity to do so because I had a castle that was kinda like a barony, so easy to give out and not too costly. Question though : if you remove someone's title, there's a negative impact on your other vassals, right? The easiest trick would be to give a title to a claimant, push his claim, then retake the original title you give him and redo. But that would be too cheesy, I think... Smile

So I again recreated a character (18 years old) and his family crest, again the same type of character (a diplomat that is also a good military leader). Off the bat, I once again betrothed him to Daenarys, who is a recent born baby. I had trouble early on with my small council. They liked me enough, but none of them were particularly good at their jobs. Over the course of the next few years, I was able to put three women on the council by marrying them to single men of my court. One of them, my Marshall, has 20 in the military stat. Over the next few years, my very good chancellor, my very good spymaster and my castellan (who was also my character's friend) met their untimely end. They died of disease and assassination. I was really pissed, because I didn't have any backups. And it's still too early for court children to grow up and master a stat. So I'm eagerly awaiting an opportunity to replace my current small council members (especially my new spymaster... ugh... 10 is the best stat I was able to find. Makes for 4.8% chance of faking a claim... with 4% chance of being discovered... -_-

Speaking of faking claims, I started on the Three sisters island. To take over the duchy, I have to take over 3 of the 4 components (The islands Littlesister, Sweetsister (my starting point) and Longsister, as well as Sunderland castle, the duchy seat, which is on Sweesister). I didn't really have a choice than try to fake claims on both other islands. After 12 years or so, I was finally lucky and got the claim of Littlesister. I immediately sent my Chancellor to Longsister and I hope to get lucky sometime soon. Once I have both islands, I'll have to de Jure claim to the duchy. Once there, I'll be able to use the some titles to get enough land to either form or conquer one or two more duchies... mouahahaha...

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:47 pm

Cool beans. Smile

Be careful with banning vassals or revoking titles in certain circumstances you can get a pass (vassal is a traitor or a heretic or you are a Byzantine ruler) but most of the time you will get a huge penalty.

Becoming a tyrant can be very useful in certain circumstances but you may end up digging a hole from which you can escape.

I've started reading the first book in the series. I look forward to giving the mod a try when I have the time.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:59 am

I need to try this mod. I also really need to play Elder Kings. I think it's awesome it includes the entirety of Nirn, not just Tamriel. Akavir, here I come!

As for your strategy, it's one I've personally found insanely useful. The penalty isn't that insanely high that you can't do it once or thrice, and it's a fantastic way to offset a shitty Chancellor, especially in the early game. I have fought like four wars against my tyranny, though...

As for my own game, I'm now known as King Murchad the Great. I unified Ireland, got control of Brittany, and have been chipping away into western Scotland. Somehow my nephew got a claim on a sizable duchy in Scotland. No idea how that happened, but I'm pressing it.

For the long term, I'm setting my eye on Scandinavia. Gonna start fabricating claims on the pagans up there, get some quick land.
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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:08 am

Oh, yeah, war's been producing some interesting results. My favourite was my last, in a war with Scotland for the province of Galloway. They had an army of about a thousand more than mine that I just couldn't go up against, so I was trying to maneuver around them and siege them down. It worked for all of one province before I stumbled directly into their main force on accident. They were beating me bad, and I was down to about fifteen hundred men... When England spontaneously declared war on them, mustered an army of ten thousand, and steam rolled into Scotland. They beat the army I was fighting against in like a week, bumping my warscore from like fifteen to a hundred, giving me an instant victory. It was glorious.

I'm at war with the Scottish again, for the aforementioned duchy. My warscore is at like 53%, but they've mustered another army and I've already broken mine against their previous one. I'm going to have to pull some fancy maneuvering to bring up another army and unite the two without getting crushed. Wish me luck.
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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:48 am

Cara,

You don't need to have seen the tv series or read books to play the mod. There's something like 9 of the 11 possible starting point scenarios take place before the first book. I started right after Robert Baratheon was crowned king of the Iron Throne. So there's no spoilers and it might even help you familiarize yourself with the world and the main families.

dragoniguana,

Laughing  Boy, that was a lucky save! You were allied with England, or did they do that out of the goodness of their heart?  As a duke, I like to sometimes jump between wars against two other dukes to get one on them on my side.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:29 pm

I get the setting alright, it's not hard to grasp really. Good to know that there are no spoilers.

Sounds like D is having a lot of fun in Ireland.

I must confess I don't like dealing with boats in the game and that's why I prefer starting on the mainland. I've only played a little with my Emperor and one of his heir is actually King of Ireland (but he doesn't have an heir of his own) while most of Scotland is held by the other heir and future Emperor. I don't know where I'm supposed to go from here. My Emperor is almost as big as the Byzantine Emperor and could expand in Spain or Germany. He is 60 and has the great pox and I don't know how long he has left so I may leave the expansion to his sons.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:21 pm

Triactus wrote:
Cara,
dragoniguana,

Laughing  Boy, that was a lucky save! You were allied with England, or did they do that out of the goodness of their heart?  As a duke, I like to sometimes jump between wars against two other dukes to get one on them on my side.

Ha, that's the great thing: They weren't even joining my war! They happened to decide to press a claim of theirs on Scotland's southernmost duchy at that exact moment.

Cara, believe me, I hate boats, too. Especially since every time I want to muster my full strength, I have to call on troops from Wales and Brittany as well as the British Isles themselves. Just getting my troops together can be a hassle.

One thing I hate is knowing your character is about to die, yet not being sure when. I don't want to do anything much at this point, since King Murchad is 71 and soon dead, but he seems to be taking a damned long time to croak.
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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:00 pm

I know exactly what you mean. My Emperor has just kicked the bucket at 75 and he had the great pox for more than 15 years during which he managed to bury two wives and sire three children. I didn't want him to die in the middle of a war so I didn't press too many claims in Spain but now I have to fend off all the pretenders if I want to keep my guy in charge. The first ten years are going to be rough.

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PostSubject: Re: Crusaders Kings 2   Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:44 am

My years are gonna be bad once my successor takes over. He has like two diplomacy and everybody hates him due to all his negative traits. My strategy right now is to hoard ducal titles as King Murchad so I can hand them out to curry favour as King Brian (primogeniture succession is great like that).
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