Torment: Tides of Numenera

For those Planescape: Torment fans amongst you, I wanted to bring to your attention Torment: Tides of Numenera. It is a spiritual successor to PST being developed by inXile, the folks behind the upcoming Wasteland 2. It is set in the new game setting created by Monte Cook, so it is not in the Planescape setting, but it is supposed to have a similar design and thematic links to Planescape: Torment.

The Torment Kickstarter just went live today, and met it's funding goal of $900,000 in just 6 hours. It's now approaching $1.5 million. I've pledged $50.

I'm very pleased. After years of people on the internet telling me this genre was Dead with a capial "D", I'm looking forward to Wasteland 2, Project Eternity, and now a new Torment.

Thank you, Kana, you are our best news bringer. I will definitely check it out and try to pledge something. Kickstarter is great asset to both developers and players. Looks as if we old timers may have some good games coming our way.

Ah, yes - Numeria from inXile

I'm very looking forward to this one, the setting is a bit of a letdown I like Planescape setting a lot and it has numerous possibilities but eager to see what Numeria setting will offer.

Yes kickstarter brought very interesting sequels and spiritual successors to very good games. Like Wasteland 2, Numeria, Grim Dawn, Dreamfall Chapters(The Longest Jorney 3)

Something I'm VERY excited for (especially since the 3.5k mark was hit and Avellone is doing a little something.) Though I'm sad we won't see our beloved Sigil or our friends, it's going to be a hell of ride methinks.

What I don't like is InExile's somewhat 'pretentious' attitude. Have you seen their goal descriptions?

3.7k MORE DEPTH!
3.8K MORE DEPTH!

Yes, I get it! PST and (hopefully) TON will be VERY deep and philosophical, but don't push it too much... I won't get 'mad' but I know how other CRPG fans react to hype. It won't be pretty if you don't hit their, high, and albeit, superfluous expectations.

hI Sim, you are right too much hype is bad. It leads people to expect more than the developers can deliver. Also, what does "more depth" mean? That could mean just about anything and probably means "we have no idea what we will do so we'll just call it more depth."

Heheh, probably. It just seems cheesy, in a pretentious and showy way. We know this will be a mind provoking, deep, philosophical game. But they always try to push it like they were going to be the new Arstiole or Plato of gaming. Maybe they will, Planescape was definitely all of the above :-)

The most assuring thing though, is that they will take their time. As a huge BioWare fan, I know what rushed development can lead to :-/...

*cries in a corner*

DAMN YOU EA!!!

As a big Bioware Fan I am am surprised you aren't a member of SP. Bioware games are their meat and potatoes.

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DAMN YOU EA!!!

Yes, that's right you can blame them for everything.

If the Dragon Age series is any indication Bioware is only the shadow of what it used to be.

Who knows maybe the publishers have learned something from the success of the Kickstarters. That shows that there are players who want quality and are willing to pay for it. Miracles do happen.Once in awhile.

I love PS:T to death but I strongly doubt this "spiritual successor" can live up to the original.

Total indifference from me.

Spiritual successors often don't live up to the original. I understand that the people who made PS:T have left. Time will tell if Bioware can pull it off. I haven't paid a lot of attention.

Maybe Sim can give us more information as to what is happening.

Nakia the Rogue wrote:

Spiritual successors often don't live up to the original. I understand that the people who made PS:T have left. Time will tell if Bioware can pull it off. I haven't paid a lot of attention.

Maybe Sim can give us more information as to what is happening.

Bioware isn't involved at all, thankfully. I'm not even sure Bioware can be said to exist anymore as anything but an EA brand.

That's one of the things that gives me hope for it. It's being made by inXile, the company founded by Brian Fargo after he left Interplay. They have some very talented people, including Chris Avellone (the lead designer of PST), Brian Mitsoda (the lead designer on Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines), and Kevin Saunders and George Ziets (lead designer and creative lead on Mask of the Betrayer, which was already practically a spiritual successor to PST). So, it's got the brains behind three of my favorite games of all time on the team. They also have Patrick Rothfuss, the author of the excellent Kingkiller Chronicles novels.

It's really a fantasy RPG dream team. I'm going to try not to let myself fall prey to the hype, though. But if anyone can pull this off, it is this team.

Thanks for the update, Kana. With Chris Avellone on the team we know the story should be good. Sounds very hopeful. I haven't been following it it so know very little except that there is player funding. I have contributed a little through another forum.

As for BioWare... I won't go into a rant, I'll only say this:

It's EA. Why? Because BioWare's DLC is of a much higher quality than the main game. Why? Because those DLCs are done with love and care, but most of all, TIME.

Take DA2, for example. Rushed, incomplete... a train wreck of a game. But therein are a lot of the things we love from BioWare, and many great ideas that just weren't put across because of time. Even Inon Zur and David Gaider has said time was an issue. DA3 is the (thankfully) the longest BioWare game ever to be in pre-production, but this was because they cut development of an expansion pack for DA2.

ME3, a game that started of spectualry well just went to the crapper after the Cerberus Station. Yeah, they did destroy TIM and Cerberus as a whole, but that could have been overlooked if they had enough time with their endings. Did you know Casey Hudson and Mac Walters wrote the damned thing without consent from any other of the writers? Patrick Weekes (who wrote Tuchanka, Mordin, Rannoch, Tali etc...) wrote to a mate about the ending... he didn't like it. Somehow it got leaked though, oops!

Kana, remember that video Brian Fargo made on a meeting with a publisher? It's on the kickstarter. That's how I think what goes on with EA and BioWare. That probably originated from his experience with Demon's Forge.

What kickstarter gives is brilliant. A way for developers to be developers without the setbacks of publishers going "trololo we want this now!"

However, if your problem lies within the direction (a more cinematic experience as opposed to the pure gameplay elements that came from NWN and BG) then that's mostly subjective :-)

If CDPR have proven anything, is that you can have solid writing, great action, awesome cinematics and a set protagonist and STILL make a fantastic RPG from it.

Nakia the Rogue wrote:

Thanks for the update, Kana. With Chris Avellone on the team we know the story should be good. Sounds very hopeful. I haven't been following it it so know very little except that there is player funding. I have contributed a little through another forum.

He'll be writing a companion. He might give some input, but his work with Eternity will keep him busy. So I don't see him impacting the narrative that much.

To bad. Do you know who the lead author is?

I don't think inXile actually has lead writer positions. From what I gather of their writing process, Brian Fargo essentially serves the role of lead writer (meaning he coordinates the writing team). I gather that the most central figure on the writing team is Colin McComb, who worked on the original Torment and Wasteland 2.

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I have contributed a little through another forum.

You mean through Pinkie's Nth+1 instance of e-begging? Those hugeass unremovable announcement are seriously nerve-grinding.

I am not donating, especially not to feed that arrogant douchebag's ego in immortalizing this stinking pile of dung forum.

I am taking a wait and see approach, and even though I am not placing much hope, it *could* be a good surprise. Maybe.

Hi Skorp, sorry but I just don't feel like getting involved in another Kickstarter right now. I ended up spending way too much on Project Eternity. This was just an easy way to support the project without really getting involved. Lazy me. I am supporting the project not the website.

Thanks, Kana, if some of the people from the original game and Wasteland 2 are involved I have hope for the project.

I mean I understand the pros of the kickstarter approach but I don't like the idea that players should put money up front in order to get quality games... If we the gamers stopped buying crappy unfinished games the publishers would eventually have to take notice.

Kickstarters are opening a way to circumvent the whole mess and give back creative control to the artists but I can't help thinking that it's not a sound business model.

And I'm pretty sure that as we speak the suits are thinking of ways to cash in on the whole kickstarter thing.

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I am taking a wait and see approach, and even though I am not placing much hope, it *could* be a good surprise. Maybe.

That's wise. Keeping expectations to a minimum is a good way to avoid much disappointment down the road.

Carabas wrote:

I mean I understand the pros of the kickstarter approach but I don't like the idea that players should put money up front in order to get quality games... If we the gamers stopped buying crappy unfinished games the publishers would eventually have to take notice.

That requires a lot of thinking and understanding and even then people still are buying crap.

RYUchan is right. It takes thought and discipline to not buy crap games. Too many people just don't seem to care. They complain about Bethesda for instance but still keep buying what Beth doles out to them. Kickstarters do give players some control and input and give control back to the developers. There will be misuse of Kickstarters but for the moment it is the best we have.

I got much more involved with the Project Eternity than I should have but still think the idea a good one. I am more of a wait and see attitude now.

RYUchan wrote:

That requires a lot of thinking and understanding and even then people still are buying crap.

You're right of course.

People end up buying just about anything as long as there are ads and positive "reviews" to maintain the hype.

I don't think Kickstarter will be viable long term. My hope is that, if these games are successful, some of the companies (inXile, Obsidian, DoubleBear) will be able to continue making them in the future without the need for crowd funding. This genre is a niche market, and I would like to see it break away from the AAA publisher model. The kickstarters prove that there is money to be made here by developers who understand the market.

The budgets of AAA games are so bloated that the publishers/developers have very thin profit margins, which leaves them with little choice but to appeal to the lowest common denominator. We will never see games like this coming from the likes of EA. There is obviously a market for this genre, but only if the games can be developed with reasonable budgets. Perhaps some mid-tier publishing house can emerge if PE, Wasteland 2, and Torment are successful.

I think of publishers as being equivalent to Starbuck, appeal to the masses at the highest possible prices. These Kickstarter games are more for the gourmet who is willing to pay for a good, well made, satisfying dish but does expect their money's worth.

I hope Kana is right and this will give companies such as Obsidian the money to continue making quality games.