Crusaders Kings 2

Okay, so I started my England game. Like I said, the plan was to start as an English count and conquer Ireland before conquering as much of England as I can. So I wanted a county that was on the shore, so I wouldn't have to pay 100 gold just to sign up mercenaries to take my army to Ireland by boat. Turns out it's not easy as that. There was just one county that was not directly controlled by a duke or the King. And the character sucked IMO. But then I noticed something that pumped me up.

I started my game as Caradog Gwynllwg (how do you even pronounce that??), the Welsh count of Gwent. It's an independent county, though de jure part of the Petty kingdom of Deheubarth, which also includes (the right now independent) Glamorgan and (the only county controlled by the King of Deheubarth) Defyd. The cherry on top? Caradog starts with a strong claim on the kingdom of Deheubarth...   

So I started my game with the short term objective of unifying Deheubarth. First order of business, tidying up my court. Most of my courtiers, including my two vassals (mayor and bishop) pretty much hate me because Caradog is envious, gluttonous and cruel (yikes). So I get rid of 3 of my 11 courtiers by marrying them out of my county. I replace my disliked councillors with people whom I buy their loyalty. But I'm not making that much money because my two vassals dislike me a lot.

Second order of business, secure military help. Since Caradog is single (though with a motherless male baby... seriously. He has no listed mother... Divine child? Jesus the Second?), I wanted to marry him off. So I betrothed him to the King of England's eldest daughter. When she came of age three years later, I married her and thus secured a most interesting alliance with the England crown, which would booster my play for Deheubarth. In the meantime, an event happened where Caradog got the Kind trait. Not only that, but he lost the envious and cruel attributes. All of a sudden, people start to warm up to him. But his two vassals still are a thorn in his side.

Third order of business, clean up his county. Since Caradog married a King's daughter, a lot of prestige came through. Enough to back up his revoking of his mayor's and Bishop's titles. Since the only really penalty (except the 25 points prestige cost per title revoked) is a -20 to all vassals, and since they're the only vassals, it was a pretty much free ploy. The two titles fell back to him, along with a bump in monthly income.

Fourth order of business, Deheubarth. With his levees boosted with the city and bishopery under his direct control, he went at it with the petty king. In a quick war, Caradog was named petty King of Deheubarth. With a de jury claim on Glamorgan, it soon also fell. Both the former petty king and count of Glamorgan are still there though. And both hate Caradog. But I just have to weather the 10 years truce before I boot their asses out of there and take the seats for myself (I'll then be able to use my city and bishopry to vassilize a claimant on a county I'm looking to before pushing that claim.

Just before I wrote this, my incompetant Chancellor was somehow able to fabricate a claim on Desmond, the southernmost Irish county. As soon as my levies regenerate a bit, I'll be off to war.   

You have a nice game going Tri. That's what I love about CK2, it's never the same thing.

As for the unknown mother that's rather common when it comes to the beginning of the game. CK2 keeps track of each and every character over centuries but it doesn't go as far as tracking undocumented ancestors for every character at the start. Besides lowborn characters frequently come out of nowhere like that so that's probably the case here.

My advice switch between different conflicts but try not to break a truce (the penalty is dire so unless you have a kingdom or an empire to gain it's not worth it).

I already like Caradog, he has such a cool name!   

So yeah, I continued my game a bit, with King Caradog II (how cool is that to actually have a number bigger than 1. ). The two counts in Deheubarth that were now my vassals didn't like me one bit. So I played with their minds to get them to hate me even more. Sure enough, they rose in rebellion... mouahahaha.  Since I directly control all holdings in my county (castle, town and church), I was able to raise a bigger army than them (plus I called in England for good measure). Sure enough, squashed the rebellion and revoked their title, since they rebelled. I used the church in my home county to land an irish claimant and then push his claim on Leinster. I was able to fabricate a claim on Desmond and Thormond in southern Ireland. I conquered both and usurped the King of Munster (added duchy of Munster to my collection of titles). He still retained Ormond, so I have to wait until the truce ends to push my de Jure claim on it. Along the way, I also landed a claimant for a Gwenydd Kingdom county, which I successfully pushed. I also added Ossory and created the Leinster duchy.

Here's a screen shot of my progress so far (the green counties are controlled by me).


Since I took that screen shot, I landed a Kildare courtier (gave him Newport, the city I still had control over) and successfully over took that county.

So as of now, I need either Powys or Gwynydd to be able to create the Kingdom of Wales (and also have a de Jure claim on Cornwall and Devon, though that last one is held by the King of England's brother, so I can pretty much forget it). I also need just two more counties to be able to create the Kingdom of Ireland. Since Ormond will soon fall into my lap, I need just one more!!

My wife (english princess) has also birth babies like they were sausages. Caradog already had a son, Owain. But with his wife, he had 6 or 7 children (!). It will be interesting down the line when the third generation will start having claims on other counties, which I will be able to press without landing them first since they're family.   By the way, Owain grew up to be a awesome heir. He's a Brilliant Strategist with 18 in martial and 14 in diplomacy. He served as my Chancellor for a while (though I just replaced him by one of my mayors, who had a 17 diplomacy rating. He'll become my new Marshall, though). And I'm also golden neighbor wise. Since I married the King of England's daughter, I had an alliance and he liked me well enough. He eventually died, but the alliance was maintained by his son, who was also my brother-in-law. And since I always answered his calls to war against Scotland, I have a +96 relationship with the King. Pretty cosy chair, right now.

Just before I stopped playing for the night, the pope called a crusade. Since I wasn't in his good graces (had a -11 relationship, before the "Not joining crusade" hit) and didn't want a rival to excommunicate me, I joined in. Since the maintenance for boats is so costly, I raised my own personal levies (2300 men, with King Caradog II, Prince Owain and the Count of Kildare at its head, hoping all three will gain the "Crusader" trait), hoped my boats to Normandy, and had a long healthy walk to Jerusalem. I was almost there when I stopped playing. I had only lost 200 men along the way).

There was also a rebellion that broke out of Thormond a little while after my army left. The rebels besieged the county, numbering 1500. The only levies I could raise (including my vassal's), were numbering 1100. But the point wasn't really crushing the rebellion. I know I couldn't do it at the moment. I mauled the besiegers just enough so that the garrison was stronger than the rebel host. So then I will have enough time to wait until the levies are replenished enough to head out to deal with those pesky rebels.

I have a question : Do you know how the money is calculated? In the screenshot, you can see what each demesne holding is bringing in. Is that the profits? Because I'm only making around 8 gold per turn, not 50... :/

You have to deduce fees for any army or levy you have raised. Having a high Stewardship makes a huge difference. Boats cost an arm and a leg to maintain as well. Have a look at the bottom of the screen after clicking on the shield under your character's portrait and you'll see the detail of your income (I can't really see the numbers on your screenshot sorry).

As far as the crusade is concerned you could have joined and sat back next to your fire at home just to make the Pope happy but getting the Crusader trait is worth the hassle (if only for the relationship bonus so taking your heir and your vassals is a pretty good idea). Bear in mind that the largest contributor will get the spoils.

Quote :

By the way, Owain grew up to be a awesome heir. He's a Brilliant Strategist with 18 in martial and 14 in diplomacy. He served as my Chancellor for a while (though I just replaced him by one of my mayors, who had a 17 diplomacy rating. He'll become my new Marshall, though).

That's not something I would advise if you don't want to lose your heir. Making an heir a chancellor or a marshal is risky because these guys can get killed (chancellors forging claims get killed everyday) or maimed (marshals training troops are prone to accidents).

My only concern is England. You have to devise some sort of plan to make sure that one of your heirs is going to get the English throne or that the English won't get too big and swallow you whole (they may be chummy right now but you'll have to work hard to maintain that alliance from generation to generation if you don't want them to turn against you). One thing that you don't want is for the English to take over all of Scotland too quickly because ideally you would do well to take some land up there while waiting for your truce in Ireland to cool down (preferably after the Scots have exhausted their troops fighting the English).

Your game is turning out to be quite fun. Long live Caradog II.  

Carabas wrote:

You have to deduce fees for any army or levy you have raised. Having a high Stewardship makes a huge difference. Boats cost an arm and a leg to maintain as well. Have a look at the bottom of the screen after clicking on the shield under your character's portrait and you'll see the detail of your income (I can't really see the numbers on your screenshot sorry).

I checked last night. I had around 96 gold coins in income, 64 gold coins in expenditure (mainly levies that were raised), so the balance was 32 gold coins. I couldn't understand, until I saw : YEARLY. So I make 32 gold coins yearly, which translates into 2,6 per month (my usual income is around 8 gold coins per month in peace time). It put things in perspective, though. Why is it important to upgrade the your demesne? If you take the castle town, yes they augment your income... By 2 gold coins per year. So it takes around 140 years for the increase in income to equal the cost of the structure. WTF? That's one long term plan. Why would you even do that in contested territory?

Anyways, I continued my game last night. It was a night of gambles, though. King Caradog II's wife died. I was unsure if I wanted him to remarry, so looking at the potential brides, I saw the infant Queen of Navarra. I thought "What the heck", and betrothed them. By the time she comes of age, my character will be 52. It's a slim chance, but maybe they'll be able to have a child and maybe the child will hang out in my court. Unfortunately, I expect the child to stay with the mother and lose the opportunity to gain Navarra, but oh well, we'll see. I'm not losing much by trying (and I'm not scared Navarra will try the opposite. I'm sure I'll be able to repel them if they try anything funny). Caradog's two eldest daughters also came of age, so I matrimonialy married them to the second in line for the crowns of Norway and Denmark, respectively. Either I'm able to assassinate the heir before he has children, either the husbands and then Caradog's grandsons, gains a claim on the kingdoms when the Kings die. I win both ways, not forgetting I forge alliances with both kingdoms in the short term.

In the meantime, I lost my alliance with England with the death of the wife (which is kind of ridiculous. Countries can be allied without a blood tie, especially when a blood tie was indeed present before). I also pulled their asses out of the fire when I used some good grace with the pope the lift the excommunication on the English King (Norway and Denmark were screwing the English lands, as well as screwing the English/Scotland war I'm a part of, which had been going on FOREVER. It's just for one county, but it keeps going both ways, has been for like 10 years and nobody has the presence of mind of signing a white peace).

King Caradog II, his heir Count Owain Gwynllwg as well a Lord Mayor finally got to Egypt. All three of them got the Crusader trait, which will go a long way in church opinion. I only had 2200 men, though. So my only real option was to lay siege to Acre, as the levy had already been emptied. I pushed back a lot of enemy attacking waves, and I was reinforced by a few stray armies from other catholic forces. But the problem is the crusaders are all Dukes. Only two of us are Kings (the other is Brittany, smaller than me). So no real Kingdom went to the crusades (France, England, HRE, etc). We were cruelly missing numbers. After conquering Acre, I decided to pick up my stuff and walk away. At that point, of the 2200 men, only 400 were left (though I'm proud to say I hadn't lost a single engagement). Our war score was +40% (with me in the lead with 32% of that score), but I couldn't do much more.

I got home, picked up the levies that had regenerated, kicked the rebels that were still camped up around Thormond and declared war on Ormond to claim it (seems my heir had been a busy bee and forged (I think) a claim on Ormond). Once that's done, I will probably head out to Scotland to help the English in their war because I'm tired of being involved in that tussle.

You don't want to help the English, you want to help yourself.

Great story by the way and it showcases some problems you have to face when you're not a major power (yet).

Improving your infrastructures is not wasted when it comes to your capital but the choice of that capital is very important. A fully improved capital is worth a lot and still only counts as a county towards your demesne limit. But it's a long term strategy as you put it.

When it comes to income the larger you get and the higher your stewardship, the more money you end up having so spending hundreds of gold on building stuff isn't such an issue anymore (especially if you've increased technologies).

The tricky bit later on is getting powerful vassals that like you and are able to expand your realm on their own without becoming a threat to your authority.

Do you have the Legacy of Rome DLC? It introduces retinues that make life much easier as a king. Retinues act as standing armies/royal guards and they are a bit costly but worth every penny.

I didn't get why you didn't want your king to marry. It's worth it for alliances and possible claims down the line but more importantly you get the stat bonus that can make a pretty huge difference (and if you're concerned about fathering more heirs you can always look for an older woman).

Regarding alliances I agree that it's a bit short term and the system can really mess with the player. I had a Duke once who was the Holy Roman Emperor's grandson and that old bastard ended up taking a title away from my guy despite some favourable relationship rating and never rebelling. It really pissed me off but I guess I was lucky since my guy never ended up in his liege's dungeons.

So if I were you I wouldn't put too much stock in an alliance with the English if you don't have some current union to make it last. In this game your best friend can become your worst enemy really fast (especially when your ruler dies and your new guy is still green).

Besides it's a really good thing that the English aren't winning against the Scots since it allows you to build up your power base and if you play your cards right you may be able to take over England and Scotland as well and form the empire of Britannia.

Yeah, I know I don't want to help the English, but since I plan (on the long term) on controlling England, I don't want foreign powers screwing me. I also am looking at vassalizing to England once our union is no long favorable. Right now, I have nothing to gain in joining England since they like me and they could help me in my wars (the alliance I had). Once I can no longer expand in Ireland, I want to join England as to be able to expand in England, a vassal claiming other vassals. I can't do that right now. I could also try myself on Scotland, with the help of Norway, Denmark and Navarra once those marriages happen. How does the Invasion action work? Do I need a claim on Scotland to invade it? I know the aggressor needs to possess less holdings that the victim, but is that the only requirement?

Pagans can claim conquest over an entire kingdom once per reign but I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here Tri. Do you mean pressing a vassal's claim? Sorry I don't get it (must be the flu acting up).

You're right not to want foreign powers to settle in your isles. That goes without saying. If you want to join England as a vassal and take it from within you must make sure that you are not a king yourself. Still that would avoid some long wars, forging many claims and taking the realm bits by bits. You should start saving up right now to pay for mercs to make sure your coup pays off.

Is the part you didn't get about Scotland? What I was saying is the Invasion option. You have the option of invading realm that has more holdings than you. I believe you have to go through the Pope to be allowed to proceed. My question was a bout a claim. Do you need a claim on the throne of Scotland in order to be "eligible" to the Invasion option? Or can anyone with good relations with the Pope ask for it?

You mean something like a holy war or a crusade? Sorry I'm still not getting it.   

hahaha Invasion is a type of Casus Belli that can be invoked to go to war against another. Pressing a claim is one. Independance is another. In the case of Invasion, if the target has less holdings than you, you can ask the pope to allow an invasion of their realm. I'm at work and not home, so I can't check and I was wondering what the requirements were so that the pope approves.

Oh I get what you're saying now. Here is from the wiki:

Quote :

If you are Catholic and have a claim upon a throne or you're smaller than the realm in question (that is, you have fewer holdings in your realm), and the Pope condones your invasion (costing you 500 piety with Free Investiture or 250 with Papal Investiture), you can use the invasion CB. Upon victory you'll get the throne in question, 400 prestige, and every occupied holding as well as all holdings in counties where you occupy the capital, and also earn the title of "The Conqueror". As such, you should occupy every county before enforcing demands, as then you can install your own nobles. If you stalemate you'll lose 100 prestige. If you lose you'll lose 200 prestige, and have to pay concessions, and you'll lose your claim upon the throne.

Orthodox and Miaphysite Christians may also use this CB (appealing to the local patriarch rather than the pope), but only if both the ruler and his target are under the authority of the same patriarch. Due to autocephaly, this is rarely the case.

This CB can also be used by Zoroastrians if the Moabadan-Moabad has been restored, and by Jews if the Kohen Gadol has been restored.

You have to be pretty chummy with the Pope.

Yeah, I saw that wiki, but I also saw other information not included in the wiki, so I wanted first hand information.

It all depends on how well you're getting on with the Pope sorry I can't be more specific. If you can get your enemy to be excommunicated you can even ask the Pope to start a holy war against them and that can be pretty sweet.

Another option would be for you to become a heretic. If you're big enough you can really take advantage of embracing a heresy to wage war.

I didn't play CK2 as much lately because I was finally finishing Witcher 2 (I have a nasty of constantly switching between games so I rarely finish anything). Anyways, I had a couple of hours to continue my CK2 game.

A lot of my betrothed came of age. So two of my daughters were married matrilinially to the prince of Denmark (second in line of succession) and the prince of Norway, securing two alliances there. Caradog's second wife (normal marriage this time), the queen of Navarra, also came of age, securing another alliance. Since the first wife had 7 children with Caradog, other marriage opportunities presented themselves as they came of age. I married (matrilinially) another daughter to a prince of Sweden (brother to the young king), I married my second son (normal marriage) to the child duchess of York and I married my third son (normal marriage) to the infant queen of Scotland (!). So I'm basically becoming quite a powerful player. And since a lot of people don't like England, once I play my son Owain (who has a claim on England since her mother was an English princess), well, things might get truly interesting.

What's more, in a quick succession, my chancellor was able to secure a fake claim on Dublin and Powys, two counties I needed to create respectively the Ireland kingdom and the Wales kingdom. I conquered Powys (though It took longer than anticipated because the Gwynedd king called in an ally) and I'm presently attacking Dublin. Once that's done, the only thing stopping me is cash, which I'll be saving (300 gold is needed to create each kingdom, and I'm coming from a -150 gold treasury, since it cost so much to fake the claims). But It's only a question of time because I'm making 14 gold per turn, which is kinda nice. So I should have the required money in less than 4 years (for both kingdoms).

Infrastructure wise, it's going well. I've chosen the three Deheubarth counties as my main land (Gwent, Glamorgan and Dyfed). I've built all the money generating structures I can for the moment (I need to improve other types of structures to unlock the next level of buildings of that category). I was currently building a next level keep when the money for the fake claims was deducted.

Also, I don't know if Caradog really digs Spanish chicks or if the queen of Navarra things the Walles accent is sexy, but they had 3 children in the first 4 years of marriage (!). 1 boy and 2 girls. And since it's a normal marriage, they're of my dynasty... mouahahaha.

Question about succession : since the next rulers of Navarra and Scotland will probably be of my dynasty, does that mean these kings will be my vassals? Does that work if we're the same rank (both kings)? Or would that work only if my character's Emperor of Britania?

As a king you can only have vassals of lower ranks so it won't happen. That's actually an incentive to become an emperor. But nothing prevents you from collecting crowns if you can take them or if your heir can inherit them.

By the way you can find out about titles by clicking on the De Jure thingy that gives you the exact county, duchy, kingdom and empire a fief is part of. In order to create Britannia all you need is 80% of the De Jure territory that makes up England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland and at least two crowns.

Unless the proverbial shit hits the fan you should do really well with all these alliances.

By the way good call on the matrilineal weddings. That way you're spreading your dynasty around and one day you could have a distant relative in the Holy See. Just don't expect guys from your bloodline to actually like you.

You remind me that I haven't finished the Witcher 2 myself. There is something about this game that didn't manage to grab my attention like the first one.

I haven't played much Crusader Kings 2 lately either. There is a sale on steam and a better one on bundle stars by the way. I've bought the Persian DLC (portraits and units) which was the last one since I've been planning to give Zoroastrian leaders another try.

Yeah, that's what I thought about equal rank characters. I just hoped..

I played a little bit yesterday. I got Dublin and, as I was conquering it, an event popped up, where I learned a bishop had been stealing from me. I confronted him, but I let him go in exchange of his paying back what he stole. And BOOM, I had 280 gold added to my treasury. It gave me enough money to create Ireland. Once I did so, out of the 6 still independent counties, three bend the knee. Two were at war against me because they were at war against Dublin to claim it when I was attacking it. I had to crush their armies. But that also paved the way for the petty king of Connaught to annex one of those counties. The other swore to me.

I also added another ally to my brochette. I (matrilinially) betrothed the last child I had with the late princess of England to a prince of the HRE. Another alliance in the boooks once they come of age. It won't matter in the short run, but I'm shopping future dynasty claimants as well as fishing for present allies in case of emergency. Speaking of allies, I just helped out the Queen of Scotland fight off a rebellion. To be fair, they imprisoned the King, my son, so no way in hell was I going to stand back and watch.

I also accumulated enough money to create the Wales kingdom. So I'm thrice King now. (Ireland, Wales and technically Navarra, just because I married the queen). So I need now to figure out how to approach Connaight and Gwynedd. Both rulers are dukes and don't want to bend the knee. So If I overtake them through force, they won't like me and give me nothing. I wonder if I can invite a claimant from Connaught, conquer Connaught and then push the dude's claim? Or are you not allowed to attack your vassals? (But then I'd also have to deal with the truce I would get after conquering Connaught). My gamble can be that pushing the guys claim THEN asking him to bend the knee could work. But I'm not sure, as the current ruler doesn't hate me (+30 or +40 relationship). I don't know if +100 would weight enough in the balance. Or, I can always overtake Connaught and Gwynedd and hope their decendants will like me better (or hope they rise in rebellion in the meantime).

Afterwards, I don't know quite how to proceed. The plan was to become part of England to continue my claiming of Britinia without having to wage war with a liege for a single county every 10 years. But I forgot that a King can't bend the knee to another King. So how do I expand in Britania? My heir is married, his heir is married (didn't have a control over that one). One of my sons is betrothed to the duchess of York, so their children will inherit the duchy and it should become part of my territory. But for the rest? The empire of Britania is still a ways off. I have two crowns, but I'm currently at 18% of the counties... 62% to go...

That's a great start!

You could have waited before creating your crown and taken England from within, I guess now you're going to have to take the English crown the old fashioned way. You could take Scotland first it should be easier.

Being married to the queen is not the same as being the king. If she dies your guy won't get the crown of Navarra (maybe your kid will inherit but it depends on the actual laws).

Having one crown can be an advantage when it comes to succession. Being king you have some claims that you can press. I'd rather press claims in my guy's name. If you press the claims for someone make sure you give them a title first otherwise you will end up right where you've started.

When it comes to vassals be very careful. A courtier (without a title) can be your greatest fan and turn against you after gaining a title if he is ambitious or simply if he wants more titles. It's better to put someone who has the content trait in the right places. Having vassals rebel allows you to revoke a title without a penalty so it can be nice. Watch out though, you don't want your vassals to get too many titles.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. It seems that they are not your vassals but since they are part of your kingdom you could press a De Jure claim on them. Am I missing something?

Yes, I could press a De Jure claim. But having a vassal that hates your guts is not ideal as he'll not pay taxes and not give you levies. I'm just looking at the possibilities.

I hadn,t thought all that much about farther than the crown of Ireland in the last few times I played. I thought it would be a great way to get the few remaining provinces lest they fall into someone else hands, but I think I'm better off in the English kingdom to, like you say, overtake it from within. I might do the cheese thing and reload before I create the kingdom. It's not so much I made a mistake as I took a road I'm not comfortable on.

I would stick to the current game, build up on my strengths and take on the English. They are not invincible.

What you don't want is to have the HRE or the French get a foothold in Britain. The Channel may protect you but fighting the big blobs can be a real pain.

Regarding your vassals, if one of them hates your guts have him rebel, crush him, take his title away and give it to a trustworthy courtier (a content character with a high stewardship). Problem solved.

Yeah, but it's not that I'm afraid of the English (especially with the backup that I have... Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Scotland, Navarra and soon, the HRE). It's that I'm not quite sure how to proceed. How do I take hold of England? By producing fake claims on county after county and having to fight all English each time? Trying to arrange it by marriage and crossing my fingers?

I'm having difficulty inciting rebellion. Specially since I'm getting stronger, it takes forever to have a vassal rebel (in my France game, I never could have them rebel, as hard as I tried).

You have to be something of an opportunist. Marriage, fake claims, pushing a vassal's claim... Look if you can press several claims at the same time.

I never had problems making my vassals rebel. It's actually a real pain at times.

Anyway I would bide my time and expand, expand, expand. You can alternate between Scotland, England and independent lords in between truces. It should work.

I'm rather not sure how I should proceed. So far, I noticed France was in England fighting the English in a excommunication war. Thing is, I didn't really care one way or another, but I thought it might be a good moment to do some carving of my own. The only choices I had were : a de Jure claim on the Devon county, a de Jure claim on the Cornwall county (both are a de Jury part of Wales), or take part in the excommunication war. If not for the two counties I had a claim on, I would have taken that road. But it was probably my only chance as England already had a knee on the ground. I decided to go ahead and wage war to claim Devon. Just to be sure, and as a show of strenght, I called in all my allies. They all agreed to back me up and boy, it wasn't just talk. Seeing the HRE touch down on the English shore with 8000 soldiers, that was kinda cool (would have been more, but HRE just finished a war I backed them on). Scottish and Norwegian armies also converged around me. We managed the deed just as the excommunication war ended. Since the excommunicated leader was forced to step down, I didn't have any bad beef with the current king for waging war against England!

King Caradog passed away, sick on Greypox. His son, King Owain, took the throne at the not so young age of 41. I had around 430 gold, which I mostly used up to buy my vassal's loyalty. I think it will pay itself up with the money I will be making. When I was created the kingdoms of Wales and Ireland, I granted all my duchy titles to Owain, to make sure I would choose where they went after inheritance. I did the same here, I landed Owain's son, Prince Caradog and granted him all my duchy titles, save the duchy of Deheubarth, where my three main holdings are.

I also overtook the two last counties in my kingdoms (besides Cornwall, which is still owned by the English), Gwynedd in Wales and Connacht in Ireland. Also, as I had 8 counties and the demesne max was 7, I invited a claimant for Penthievre, landed him and attacked Brittany, which was in the middle of a revolt. I'm thinking : if all else fails, I might expand in Brittany, since it's not a part of France.

On the personal side, Owain is a pretty solid character. He has 12 in diplomacy, 21 in martial and 11 in stewardship. He has 8 in intrigue and 3 in learning, but I can live with that. What worries me is his son and heir, Prince Caradog. He has shitty stats, including a 0 in diplomacy. I see leadership problems coming a mile away. And from what I understand, when your character has less than 12 in intrigue, plotting is impossible as it will very rarely succeed. I might have to kill my son. The other problem is Owain's wife is one of his rivals and they dislike each other, which means no other children will be forthcoming (he has another son and a daughter, so it's not catastrophic). I might have to divorce her and use my King to marry into an alliance.

As per my Crusader title, I'm close with the pope (+63). But that doesn't help me much. I looked at the Invasion casus belli and I meet al the criteria to invade England, but the pope doesn't dislike the King of England enough. I might have to push to have him excommunicated, but I'm not sure that would work either. (To my understanding, the invasion CB makes it so you invade someone who must have more counties than you. If you win, you get the other guy's title (or throne if he's a king) as well as every holding you occupy. All other none occupied holdings become your vassals. So it's a good way to grab land and give it to your loyal subjects once the fighting stops.).

So I'm unsure what to do. I already will own the York duchy in the future, as the duchess is betrothed to my Owain's brother, so their heir will be of my dynasty and since he's of my family, he should become a vassal of mine (unless I'm wrong?). I looked over the English duchies, and I could marry myself into 3 or 4 more, but I would need to marry the second in line and assassinate the elder, which, without a high intrigue, would require serious cash to assassinate. But then again, if I gain too much of England's land, I lose to opportunity for an Invasion CB, which I already lost agains Scotland, since I am bigger than Scotland. Besides, I might need my children to forge alliances because I lost a couple through succession (including *sniff sniff* HRE).

So the advice I need is : how do I lower the relationship between the pope and the King of England?

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when your character has less than 12 in intrigue, plotting is impossible as it will very rarely succeed.

All you need is a decent spymaster and a devious wife.

Speaking of which I would kill Owain's wife in order to get a new alliance or a wife with awesome stats.

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So I'm unsure what to do. I already will own the York duchy in the future, as the duchess is betrothed to my Owain's brother, so their heir will be of my dynasty and since he's of my family, he should become a vassal of mine (unless I'm wrong?).

Is the duchess of York your vassal or is she the king of England's vassal? If she is not Owain's vassal it doesn't matter whether or not the heir is from your dynasty (unless you make him the heir to your crown).

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So the advice I need is : how do I lower the relationship between the pope and the King of England?

That's a tricky one. I can't see how we can affect the relationship between the Pope and another character. I will let you know if I can think of something else but right now all I can think of is assassination. If you kill the king (or the Pope) it is possible that they won't get along that well (especially if the king to be has some sinful traits).

Getting your own Pope may be too much work unless you have Sons of Abraham and manage to influence the College of Cardinals.

Carabas wrote:

All you need is a decent spymaster and a devious wife.

Speaking of which I would kill Owain's wife in order to get a new alliance or a wife with awesome stats.

That's also what I was thinking, but plotting and assassination might not be favorable options, whereas just divorcing isn't frowned upon (and since I'm somewhat tight with the pope, he won't mind).

Carabas wrote:

Is the duchess of York your vassal or is she the king of England's vassal? If she is not Owain's vassal it doesn't matter whether or not the heir is from your dynasty (unless you make him the heir to your crown).

That's what I was afraid of. I was under the impression that once you push a claim of a landed vassal or a family member, the territory, even if you're not the liege, falls into your lap. I thought the same was applicable to inheritance (i.e. when my nephew inherits the duchy of York.

Carabas wrote:

That's a tricky one. I can't see how we can affect the relationship between the Pope and another character. I will let you know if I can think of something else but right now all I can think of is assassination. If you kill the king (or the Pope) it is possible that they won't get along that well (especially if the king to be has some sinful traits).

Getting your own Pope may be too much work unless you have Sons of Abraham and manage to influence the College of Cardinals.

Yeah, tell me about it. My hope is that I would eventually be able to excommunicate the ruler. Once that's done, the invasion CB should be a walk in the park. But a lot can change in a short while, so I don't know. We'll see...