Tyranny [no spoilers]

I've finished it today after clocking 39 hours according to Steam (some of which were wasted on character creation since I restarted the game so my playthrough must have been around 35 hours).

The game has a truly epic storyline which allows the player to be evil for a change and that's refreshing.

What stands out is both the similarities with Pillars of Eternity and the differences.

Tyranny is a classless game so you can and you should embrace the concept and experiment with everything the game has to offer.

Practice makes perfect. Tyranny rewards your character's actions with experience instead of giving you points for completing quests and killing enemies. As a result if you're playing as a frontliner your character will probably get a few more levels simply because parry and dodge will level quite a bit (and if you keep your character out of harm way you may not level as much as a result).

Magic is really well done in this game. You pick a basis for a spell and then you can pick and choose some of the effects you know so instead of choosing a spell from a list you are recreating it in game.

Abilities and spells are using cooldowns (some of them can be used once per rest) which makes for a much more dynamic feel.

The party consists of up to 4 characters which makes the game much tighter. Followers are really well done by the way.

Important NPCs and factions keep track of your actions using two different gauges, one for respectively loyalty and fear or favour and wrath so you can get a rough idea of where you stand. Extremes will unlock extra abilities.

I haven't even mentioned the story and how it is presented. At the beginning you're offered a number of choices pretty much like in a choose your own adventure book and every decision you make will have an impact in the story of the game, the places you will visit and the interactions that will open up to you.

There are four different ways to finish the game depending on your choices (a bit like in Fallout New Vegas). I did pick the chaotic ending simply because it felt right to me.

Tyranny is not perfect though. I don't mind all the reading but at times I did wish for more consistency. If the text has my guy delving deep into a huge battle I'd like to face more than a few foes at a time. Seriously, the most I've ever faced in this game was probably 6 guys. Suspension of disbelief is ok but it's hard for the game to feel truly epic when you only have skirmishes.

The other problem had to do with the size of the (gorgeous) maps. In BG 1 and 2 it could take a little more than a few minutes to explore an area but in spite of that it almost never felt too short. In Tyranny you can go through and area really quickly.

I don't want to post spoilers but attacking a stronghold in Tyranny is just a matter of a few minutes and it can be over pretty quickly which can only take away from the feeling of taking part in a conflict of epic proportions. It's not just about combat as exploration really suffers from that as well.

Unfortunately these problems really stand in the way of the game taking what should be its rightful place as one of the most epic CRPGs ever made.

Tyranny is really focused on the story and it does that part really well. It also has the gameplay to back up the feeling of playing a really powerful character but although dialogues offer plenty of opportunities for deliciously evil roleplaying, battles severely lack in scale and don't allow the character to shine as much as expected.

Still, Tyranny stands out as one of the few games to offer so much variety in terms of choice and more importantly in terms of consequences. Playing Tyranny you can tell that your actions have an impact on the world and that's something many so called RPG don't do these days.

Sounds most interesting. I was not aware that this game even existed ('tis what I get for playing old RPGs and weird Twine things ). I'll definitely try that one in the future.

Cara wrote:

Tyranny is a classless game so you can and you should embrace the concept and experiment with everything the game has to offer.

That's good to hear; a very sensible solution. I wonder if this post-class thing will become mainstream - it definitely feels more realistic that way.

Yeah, been eyeing that game for quite a while now. Finances are a bit tight but maybe after the spook period has come and gone I'll get it. A world where evil has won -- fuck yeah

The game is sold for $35.99 at WinGameStore (you can take advantage of 5% off with this one time voucher code: pcgames5off) which is roughly what I've spent for it when I preordered and seems to me like a fair price considering it's a 30 hour game.

They say it has replay value but in all fairness it's entirely focused on the main quest so whether or not replaying the game is enjoyable depends on whether or not you wish to explore other factions.

The best comparison would be to refer to Fallout New Vegas and there is a reason why I only completed the game once with the Legion, once with the NCR, never with House and countless times without siding with anyone.

I'm contemplating replaying Tyranny with another character going for a different ending but the one I've just experienced felt perfect so I'm not sure what to go for next.

Trying to be a goody two shoe in this game could be an interesting challenge though.

Quote :

I wonder if this post-class thing will become mainstream - it definitely feels more realistic that way.

In all fairness it isn't new at all. The original Fallout back in 97 didn't have any classes and there are other games like that, Arcanum for instance or Lionheart (both were strongly influenced by Fallout).

Pen and paper rulesets have been trying to move away from the shadow cast by D&D and its artificial set of classes.

The moment you start putting skills in a class based game you're opening things up which is why 3E was an interesting turning point. Games like NWN 1 and 2 and IWD 2 allowed us to play around classes in order to make the character we truly wanted to play.

In my opinion a game like Tyranny is just the next logical step. You start with a background that gives a flavour to your character but there is nothing preventing you from training your character to improve skills that weren't part of that starting package and once you can use these skills in the field there is nothing preventing you from increasing them through practice.

In my game I started as a two hander because armour is a big deal in this game (it's set in a Bronze Age era and not a medieval one) but I switched to bows and then to sword and shield and it did work out fine. Sure, getting extremely specialised is not without rewards but versatility is not such a bad thing either.

Cara wrote:

In all fairness it isn't new at all.

Point.

Cara wrote:

armour is a big deal in this game (it's set in a Bronze Age era and not a medieval one)

Oh Hel yes. <3 Then I am definitely going to play this someday, if but to experience a rare instance of a fictionalized, interactive take on said era. I've been obsessed with Knossos for quite a while... I wonder if it's depicted there somehow.

I don't want you to be disappointed, in all fairness to me the Bronze Age thing feels a lot like window dressing although it bears some relevance when it comes to gear (it will be nice to hear what you make of this though because I'm far from an expert on the subject).

That being said the devs do have a very interesting take on gender roles in the lore of the game which is something you may enjoy (I know I do). Of course idiots all over the net got bent out of shape over this which can only add to the entertainment factor.

I loved the few hours of Tyranny that I have played. Unfortunately, real life has thrown a shit storm at me recently, and I haven't been able to get back to it. It's definitely nice to play a game that allows you to play an evil character in an intelligent way.

Hmm, did you get thrown into one of those Trump camps, Kana?

I've started replaying the game with an unarmed build and a more "neutral" (good would be pushing it) character who is less of a knave and more honourable. Surprisingly enough the game feels different even if some events are repeated -without posting spoilers NPCs who were hostile towards my first character actually respect the one I'm playing now. This is good.

But still, the main story is (almost) everything so even with these differences it doesn't feel as fresh. Replaying Tyranny is more like wondering what would have happened if you made different choices and that's totally fine as we can't expect the game to be completely different. I think I'll drop it for the time being. It's an enjoyable game and I wished it was a bit longer but it's probably too soon for me to replay it and really get drawn into a variant of the story I've just completed.

With that being said, playing an honourable and almost decent character makes for an interestingly fresh perspective even if it doesn't alter the big picture all that much when considering how things are supposed to go down.

Regardless, the game is now on my wishlist.

I strongly suggest doing what I did, i.e. taking your time and choosing the path that feels right to you.

The drawback with this approach is that going down another path is much less enticing.

That being said playing Tyranny has prompted me to play PoE again (hopefully by now they're done messing up with it -from what I've gathered the people responsible for Tyranny weren't directly involved with PoE but they did work on South Park the Stick of Truth).

Yet another confirmation that Paradox suck as a publisher.

Tyranny is getting a portrait DLC, for $4 you can get 20 portraits for your character...

If anyone is looking for portraits they'd be better off going over to the Nexus or doing a quick search online.

Last but not least portraits for Pillars of Eternity are compatible with Tyranny so that's another reason not to buy that crap (unless it's 75% off and you have some Steam wallet change to waste).

So I gave Tyranny a go. I only played two or three hours. I didn't expect it to be so much like Pillars of Eternity. I was planing on completing Tyranny and moving on to Pillars 2 (bought but now played yet), but I might squeeze another type of game between the two as to not get bored of it too quickly.

I like the no-class system. You can mix and match things to fit with your usual gameplay style. And having a hybrid experience system (points from defeating enemies and points from abilities usage) makes for a better immersion, IMO. As the character is an envoy from the Justice Archon, I favored a diplomat build (what's more evil than a lawyer? ), but also a competent dual wielding warrior. So far, I feel like all actions I make contribute to earning a new level, like it should be in all RPGs.

I really like the reputation system. A lot of action and dialogue influence reputation in different ways, as opposed to most RPGs where you have few key moments that alter your standing with the NPCs. However, I was disappointed about the choices. I was intrigued about the game's departure from the usual tired dichotomy (good vs evil), imposing evil to the whole world. But they just moved it to the equally tired lawful vs chaotic dichotomy. I know I only played a few hours, but so far, every piece of dialogue is always for one faction or for the other. There doesn't seem to be a way to play the cunning manipulator, and that's a real shame and kind of missies the point. Hoping I'll change my mind once I play more of the game.

I like the look of the game. Graphics are well done and I like the small touch of seeing the character's "3D" model displaying a pose in the dialogue screen.

I liked the character creation process as well as the "Conquest" introduction. They could have gone further with the idea, but it was better than most games. I always get annoyed when games treat character creation like a necessarily evil or an after thought. It's important for your immersion. It's kind of like a movie : a good opening credits pulls you into the story right off the bat (Zack Snyder has a knack for that. His openings for Dawn of the Dead and The Watchmen are exactly what I'm talking about).

I've only met the one party member so far, but I'll hope Tyranny manages your relationship with you party members better than Pillars did (though, as it's the same developers, I'm not holding my breath). Pillars was a far cry from BGII, where you deeply cared about all your NPCs.

So, overall, I'm liking Tyranny so far. There are some elements I rather weary of, but I'm hooked enough to be looking forward to my next play time.

I think they had different teams working on Pillars and Tyranny.

I have a love hate relationship with Tyranny. The thing that I dislike is the discrepancy between what's on the page and what's on the screen. You're supposed to be witnessing huge epic battles and what you get to play are merely skirmishes. It cheapens the whole experience. I think that the game would have worked better as a visual novel for that very reason.

The choices tend to steer you towards some rather limited options and Tyranny only made me realise that CRPGs still have a long way to go before being in the same league as pen and paper RPGs.

All in all I did try to get back to this game but picking different choices and going for a different path didn't feel as new as expected. It didn't make such a huge difference and that realisation did mar the experience for me.

I really hope the Outer Worlds will be a better game.

Personally, I adore Tyranny. Really, really love it. I love it because I think it's a rare breed in the CRPG genre: A game that doesn't try to emulate, but tries to carve its own unique niche. It's along the lines of Planescape: Torment or KOTOR 2 in that regard. It doesn't succeed in everything that it does, but the things it's trying are so admirable that I find the whole package endearing.

The best thing about Tyranny is its world, and how it permeates every fiber of the experience. It presents you with a world of brutality and injustice, and then asks you to explore it and survive (or excel) within it. It uses that as a springboard to ask a lot of fascinating questions: "What is 'evil', and what drives people to it?"; "How do you choose a lesser evil? Does such a thing even exist?"; "What do people do to survive a society built on oppression? What will you do to survive it?"; "How do you act justly in an unjust world?"

It doesn't have the most choices or variation within the genre, but it stands largely alone in that every choice that you do make some way works toward answering those questions. It all fits into this larger thematic framework that I find fascinating to explore. In that way, I think the exact opposite of you, Cara: Tyranny exemplifies the way in which video games have their own advantages over tabletop RPGs. Because while TTRPGs have so, so many benefits, there's rarely a TTRPG focused enough or a GM skilled enough to create an experience this utterly holistic. It's something that requires restriction, y'know?

Too bad its combat is an utter snoozefest. Oh well, I forgive it. Its magic system is at least cool enough to somewhat make up for it.

By the way, not the thread for it, but The Outer Worlds is great. And it's great for a lot of the same reasons why I love Tyranny, with the addition of (even) better characters, a more engaging world to explore, and combat that isn't boring (sometimes?).

Carabas wrote:

I have a love hate relationship with Tyranny. The thing that I dislike is the discrepancy between what's on the page and what's on the screen. You're supposed to be witnessing huge epic battles and what you get to play are merely skirmishes. It cheapens the whole experience. I think that the game would have worked better as a visual novel for that very reason.

The choices tend to steer you towards some rather limited options and Tyranny only made me realise that CRPGs still have a long way to go before being in the same league as pen and paper RPGs.

I 100% agree. It's rather ridiculous that you conquer a major castle, yet fight three or four groups of five enemies in all. And the size of the maps are smaaaaaaaaaaall. Like seriously, the biggest maps are the equivalent of the smallest in Pillars of Eternity. That combined to the small number of enemies makes for a very small scale game trying to be epic. Just like your level 1 character shouldn't be so strong in combat and influencial politically from the get-go. Or we could have started at level 5 or 6.

Still, the characters are intriguing and the setting is a nice change of pace.

dragoniguana wrote:

Personally, I adore Tyranny. Really, really love it. I love it because I think it's a rare breed in the CRPG genre: A game that doesn't try to emulate, but tries to carve its own unique niche. It's along the lines of Planescape: Torment or KOTOR 2 in that regard. It doesn't succeed in everything that it does, but the things it's trying are so admirable that I find the whole package endearing.

The best thing about Tyranny is its world, and how it permeates every fiber of the experience. It presents you with a world of brutality and injustice, and then asks you to explore it and survive (or excel) within it. It uses that as a springboard to ask a lot of fascinating questions: "What is 'evil', and what drives people to it?"; "How do you choose a lesser evil? Does such a thing even exist?"; "What do people do to survive a society built on oppression? What will you do to survive it?"; "How do you act justly in an unjust world?"

It doesn't have the most choices or variation within the genre, but it stands largely alone in that every choice that you do make some way works toward answering those questions. It all fits into this larger thematic framework that I find fascinating to explore. In that way, I think the exact opposite of you, Cara: Tyranny exemplifies the way in which video games have their own advantages over tabletop RPGs. Because while TTRPGs have so, so many benefits, there's rarely a TTRPG focused enough or a GM skilled enough to create an experience this utterly holistic. It's something that requires restriction, y'know?

Too bad its combat is an utter snoozefest. Oh well, I forgive it. Its magic system is at least cool enough to somewhat make up for it.

I don't know. I haven't progressed too far into the game yet (just begun act 2) so maybe my comment will totally change, but I wasn't too impressed with the moral questions. The game doesn't present too many gut wrenching decisions that you know you'll regret (maybe because there aren't enough consequences?). In a way, the world is normal to your character, as it's pretty much what he/she has been living for a while. Maybe it would have been more evident if your character was a stranger to Kyros? I know it's a very very different style of game, but the Telltale Walking Dead games made you take some pretty intense decisions. Still, what I do like about Tyranny is the "default" alignement isn't neutral good, like most CRPGs. I do agree that depending on how you play the game, you encounter several situations that make you question what you're doing and how you're going about it.

But yeah, the magic system is beautiful. Mixing and matching what type of spell you want was a stroke of genius. Come on, how can you not like casting a fire spell named "Dragonball Z" or "Much fire, very blisters".

dragoniguana wrote:

By the way, not the thread for it, but The Outer Worlds is great. And it's great for a lot of the same reasons why I love Tyranny, with the addition of (even) better characters, a more engaging world to explore, and combat that isn't boring (sometimes?).

I've eyeballed that game. Off the bat, it looks like a first-person ME : Andromeda. So it's worth picking up?

It's less first person ME: Andromeda and more first person ME2. It reminds me a lot of KOTOR 1, actually, with some splash of New Vegas gameplay (obviously).

I think it's very worth picking up. Just know that it's a little on the shorter side (20-30 hours?), and that its actual systems and combat are... Not incredible. Still, the strength of writing and the world design more than make up for it, at least for me. If you can play through some classic CRPGs with worse gameplay (and I know all of you can!), then you can play through TOW.

Triactus wrote:

dragoniguana wrote:

By the way, not the thread for it, but The Outer Worlds is great. And it's great for a lot of the same reasons why I love Tyranny, with the addition of (even) better characters, a more engaging world to explore, and combat that isn't boring (sometimes?).

I've eyeballed that game. Off the bat, it looks like a first-person ME : Andromeda. So it's worth picking up?

Hell yeah!

We should start a new thread.