Pillars of Eternity

I'm playing a godlike moon paladin now. My previous ranger character got hit with he inventory double-click bug that stripped her of her racial bonuses. That's supposed to be fixed by this new patch, but I'm invested in this characters now.

I like the fact that they have different paladin orders. Mine is a member of the Gold Pact Knights, a mercenary paladin order. It gives the player a different motive for asking for payment when doing quests; rather than just greed, it is to seal the pact with the customer. I'm sort of using Ogami Itto from Lone Wolf and Cub as the basis for her morality.

I love the fact that the quests are so morally ambiguous. Obsidian trusts their players enough to let us decide for ourselves who's right and who's wrong. This honestly has me perplexed as to how the story is going to unfold. I've arrived in Defiance Bay and progressed the main quest, and I'm still not sure if the group I just met with are good or bad, or perhaps neither.

Really great storytelling here from Obsidian.

Indeed. The absence of alignment is liberating compared to BG.

I like that paladins get something a bit more complex than being knights in shining armours. I find the whole idea rather compelling.

My guy is a rogue so he doesn't really care about right and wrong. What matters to him is getting ahead, getting paid and satisfying his curiosity (that last bit tends to get him into trouble).

I haven't been able to play much this week so I'm looking forward to taking my party through some new and interesting locales during the weekend.

Part of me - a really big part of me, even - really wants to play Pillars of Eternity. The other part of me, however, just reread The World of Thedas and is way too attached to the world of Dragon Age to do anything but play DA:O. Again.

Nah, who am I kidding? I'm gonna pick it up as soon as possible. Just gotta stop wasting all my spending money on movies first.

You almost had me fooled. As much as I like Thedas I can't help feeling some of that stuff is derivative. Now that I've looked into A Song of Ice and Fire it's hard not to see the similarities between the Night's Watch and the Grey Wardens and when you start making comparisons you can't possibly stop there... Ignorance is bliss. I used to like Thedas a lot more when I didn't make all those connections.

When it comes to PoE there is definitely a Torment connection somewhere but I can't point the finger at one source and see the exact same material dressed in a slightly altered fashion. If anything the lore is presented in such a way that we have to really pay attention to make sense of all the data. This is good.

I don't think it's too derivative, though I can certainly see where it borrows. Actually, that's part of what I love about it - it can be very derivative (like having the standard humans/elves/dwarves), but it plays on old, established fantasy tropes in new and interesting ways (elves are second-class citizens, mages are distrusted and kept prisoner, etc.). Anyways, for me, it mostly comes down to how incredibly established and fleshed-out the lore is (here's hoping Pillars of Eternity can become a big franchise and become just as established). That, and I've spent so much time with Dragon Age now that I go into another fantasy game and make an elf expecting to be Dalish and then realize that I'm not playing Dragon Age and just get kinda sad.

As much as I adore Dragon Age, though, I'm dying for a more old-school sort of RPG, which is exactly why I'm itching to get Pillars of Eternity. I'm trying to decide between buying it or the Yojimbo/Sanjuro set that Criterion sells. Not an easy decision.

Do you find the Pillars of Eternity lore interesting, Cara, and how so? Also, what class would you say I should play, having never really played much of old-school RPGs?

There is one thing that I don't like about Dragon Age Inquisition and that's the fact that we are forced to play certain types without any choice in the matter. If you're playing an elf it has to be a Dalish and if you're playing a dwarf it has to be a surface dwarf. I guess it's better than not playing any non human character like in DA2 but still...

PoE is entirely different in the sense that you are free to create the character that you want. The game asks you to pick a type but I feel it helps with roleplaying instead of hindering it (which should be the point).

When it comes to lore PoE feels deep and complex. It's definitely not your average fantasy game. I used to be a Dragon Age Origins fan and I did like the fact that it was gritty and tackled issues like racism and tried to give us some moral ambiguity but what I have seen so far of PoE allows me to say that it goes well beyond when it comes to making difficult choices. In this game there is no easy way out and the more you look for answers the more complex the situation becomes. This is exactly the sort of things that make roleplaying fun.

Bottom line it's a very special game and to us fans of the old Infinity Engine games it's like finally going home after such a long time. I would assume that as a newcomer you would be able to enjoy it provided you get started with an open mind. If you used to play DAO in isometric view it's not that different. When DAO came out it was the closest thing we had to the old IE games but now it's clear to me that PoE is carrying the torch.

EDIT: I don't know if you shop online but there are usually discounts on the index page at Green Man Gaming right now you can save 22% with this code: "SAVE22-OVERHO-LIDAYS" (without quotation marks).

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There is one thing that I don't like about Dragon Age Inquisition and that's the fact that we are forced to play certain types without any choice in the matter. If you're playing an elf it has to be a Dalish and if you're playing a dwarf it has to be a surface dwarf. I guess it's better than not playing any non human character like in DA2 but still...

I've been thinking about this kind of thing in regards to Dragon Age a lot lately - especially how Hawke wasn't very customizable. I've actually come to the conclusion that I really like how they handled it. Hawke (and, presumably, the Inquisitor, though I haven't gotten to play Inquisition yet) is a lot different than player characters from CRPGs of old: They are you, and they are your character, yes, but they're also a person and a character unto themself. As a result, they're a defined character, and yet their personality and actions and dialogue, etc. are defined by the player. They're both you, and themself. It's an approach I really like, and I think it actually brought me a lot closer to my character. You see it a lot in things like interactive fiction (The Walking Dead, Heavy Rain, etc.). It's very different from having a character who is completely customizable and fully "you", but I don't think it's at all worse. Actually, that describes, to me, the direction Dragon Age has been going after Origins: Very different, but not worse (turns out I like Dragon Age II a lot - I know, I know, I'm a damn heretic).

Anyways, you forget, Cara, I'm not a total newcomer to old Infinity Engine games. I did try to start Baldur's Gate twice. I had a lot of fun and made it several hours in both times, but I never got any further for some reason (part of the reason why I'd like to play Pillars of Eternity now). I'm still a newcomer to the genre, but I do know at least a bit about how it works.

The GMG thing didn't work, but turns out there's a lot of deals out there. I got it for a bit under $35; I may not be able to get both Pillars of Eternity and the Yojimbo/Sanjuro set, but I can at least get the game and some Kurosawa (I'm thinking The Hidden Fortress). The game's installing now. I'll miss Thedas, but I'm still ridiculously excited to jump into the game.

I really like Rashomon, definitely my favourite although I'm partial to Throne of Blood and Kagemusha (it's hard to pick only one but you can't go wrong when it comes to Kurosawa).

I hear what you say about Dragon Age and I think my approach is more prosaic. They wanted to cut down on expenses and they probably thought that if the Witcher could get away with forcing the player to play just one guy they could probably do the same.

The real advantage of having a predefined character is the possibility to tailor the story to that character but in that case it's more like playing an adventure game rather than an RPG which is why I maintain that the Witcher series is better described as action adventure with RPG elements and not as a real CRPG.

The rogue I'm playing in PoE is loosely based on my favourite rogue in literature, Cugel by Jack Vance but he is not a carbon copy. What I like about the game is that it's possible to play a pretty wide range of characters.

It's clear that Dragon Age is mostly about three classes and in many ways Dragon Age Inquisition is a lot like DA2. You can't have a character wear or use anything and you can't even choose to go for a rather unorthodox build (like the strength rogue in DAO which could turn out to be pretty awesome).

At this point I'd highly recommend PoE over pretty much any other CRPG available at the moment unless I know that the person is looking for a more flashy, hack and slash experience (in which case I would probably suggest Bound by Flame to anyone who doesn't mind playing an indie game).

Considering you had fun with BG I think it's fair to say that it's rather likely you'll have a blast with PoE.

Ha, I already bought Rashomon. Just arrived this past Thursday, actually. I haven't gotten a chance to watch it yet (Aguirre: The Wrath of God was the movie of choice yesterday).

I hear what you're saying with the predefined character thing, and yeah, it really is like an adventure game: Again, there are enormous similarities between how Hawke and Geralt were handled and how much Telltale let you define Lee Everett in The Walking Dead. It's a different approach, and personally, I love it, though I can see how others may not.

Pillars of Eternity is over halfway done downloading now. I gotta start planning my character. I'm thinking an elf, because elves are awesome. Any recommendations class-wise? Also, what kind of a balance should I try to strike between stats roleplay-wise (i.e. if I want my character to be very perceptive) and gameplay-wise (i.e. if I want my character to have a lot of health)?

The game offers advice on which attributes are "most important" for your class, although the system is flexible enough that you can create non-standard builds.

Be aware that you don't increase your attributes at level-up, so the ones you pick at the start will be permanent. There are plenty of items in the game you can use to increase them temporarily, though.

As for the best class, I'd say go with whatever looks most appealing for you. However, you will be picking up some party members fairy soon into the game, and if you want to make sure none of them are redundant with your character, I'll list the classes of what will likely be your first five party members. I'll hide it behind a spoiler tag, though, since it can be more fun to be surprised.

Spoiler:

So, I'm just over an hour into the game. About half that was spent in character creation (and most of that was spent agonizing over whether to go with the Drifter or Mercenary backstories). I'm very early into the game, and I just came across this situation:



I'm freaking sold on this game.

Anyways, I went a fighter. Contrary to the game's suggestion, I only put like a point into Resolve; all my other points went into Might, Constitution and Perception. Come to think of it, I did the exact same thing in New Vegas. I guess I really like playing perceptive characters.

So I'm around two hours into the game now, and I am loving every moment of it. It feels a lot like Baldur's Gate, but free of the old, outdated mechanics and restrictions that those games were occasionally full of. It's the best of both worlds; everything great from the classics with a lot of the great new stuff we have now. A lot of stuff that really annoyed me in Baldur's Gate doesn't bother me a bit now. I think the biggest example is the "whole party moves as one" thing, as opposed to Dragon Age-style "you move and your party follows". I don't know why exactly, but I hated it in Baldur's Gate, and I'm completely fine with it here. Even the fog of war doesn't bother me.

I wasn't sure how I would take to reading basically all the game's plot, but it's surprisingly completely fine. It helps that I really enjoy the game's writing.

Also, this game is weirdly really, really good-looking. I normally hate pre-rendered backgrounds, even when they're good-looking, but they just take my breath away in Pillars of Eternity.

My absolutely only gripe thus far is that you can't name your save games (also, how the auto-save and quick-save are always above the normal saves when you go to save or load; I'd much rather they all be sorted by most recently saved).

If you've enjoyed Aguirre then you should watch Fitzcarraldo. My only problem with Aguirre (and Fitzcarraldo) is that it was shot in English and then dubbed in German and you can tell when you're watching it.

dragoniguana wrote:

It feels a lot like Baldur's Gate, but free of the old, outdated mechanics and restrictions that those games were occasionally full of. It's the best of both worlds; everything great from the classics with a lot of the great new stuff we have now.

It seems to me to be a very apt description of the game.

Regarding companions I just want to add that you can make your own companions during the game. They won't get to interact the way regular companions do but they allow for some margin of error if you find your party to be lacking in one category.

You know what I love about this game? It's the attention to details. For instance they have included a way to disable the dialogue tags when you're playing expert mode which means that you don't get to see the requirements. I've started the game on expert mode and I think it was the best idea I've had because that way I'm not tempted to look for requirements for dialogue checks.

There is also the fact that stats are all useful. I've maxed Resolve on my guy and so far I've never felt it was crippling him whereas in most CRPGs the "charisma" stat is almost always a dump stat (even in my all time favourite games Fallout 1&2).

On the subject of Herzog, you should definitely see his two films with Bruno S. (The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser and Stroszek).

I just finished a long session playing the game. It's almost 3am here and I'm the only one in the house who's awake. I'm just about finished in Defiance Bay, I think. This game is really good. Easily the best RPG in many years, probably the past decade, in large part thanks to the writing. This is exactly what I was hoping for when I backed the game.

Regarding Herzog, I bought "Herzog: The Collection" a while back. It has... Sixteen of his films, I think? All his earlier, fiction ones, including every film he did with Klaus Kinski, as well as some of his documentaries. I'm excited to tear through all of them.

No way I'm making my own companions. I'd prefer my traveling partners to have some life of their own.

I'm having trouble deciding what kind of weapon style I'd like to use - sword and shield, two swords, or two-handed. I'd like my main character (a fighter) to focus less on defense and more on offense, while still being able to take a hit. Any advice?

Anyways, I'm four hours in, and I haven't even left Gilded Vale yet. Suffice to say, I'm thinking it was $35 well spent. Thank you guys for making me get it.

Also, I found a dog to follow me around. I love him.

I consider it imortant to explore everything carefully. You could miss someone important or just interesting. This game is better than the BG games and I never thought I would say that. Had to take a break because of eye strain but hope to get back into it soon.

I've always liked BG but I've always been aware of the limitations of the system.

Take care Nakia, hopefully you will be able to get back to your game soon enough.

Kana wrote:

On the subject of Herzog, you should definitely see his two films with Bruno S. (The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser and Stroszek).

Great picks Kana. These movies are definitely worth watching.

Even Dwarfs Started Small is another thought provoking film.

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No way I'm making my own companions. I'd prefer my traveling partners to have some life of their own.

My dwarf fighter is absolutely great, she is bad tempered and sullen but she holds her rank in a fight. I don't feel like she doesn't have a life of her own. The little lady would be offended by such a claim... Offending her is probably not a good idea.

I haven't found the dog (yet) but I have unlocked the stronghold and it's great.

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I haven't found the dog (yet)

He's in Gilded Vale - the Black Hound that the inn there is named after. The innkeeper mentions that the inn's previous owner left so suddenly he didn't even take his dog, who's now upstairs waiting for his master. If you go upstairs and talk to the dog you can get him as a pet.

You can collect quite a few pets in this game including an undead cat. Don't do much and I have no idea what to do with them.

I don't think the pets do anything but follow you around. They're like the vanity pets they have in a lot of MMOs. It's a cute extra feature, but doesn't effect gameplay.

Too much information.

For a first run I don't mind if I miss a few things, finding stuff on your own is always more rewarding anyway.

I'll probably just skip the dog for the time being.

Ah, didn't know you like to find things on your own, Cara. Sorry 'bout that.

Yeah, pets don't do anything but sit there and look absolutely, ridiculously cute.

I just wanted to warn you all, there are two factions in Defiance Bay, and their quests are mutually exclusive. I like that, but unfortunately, it's not made entirely clear when you are passing the point of no return. If an NPC says something like, "Such-and-such-faction will not like it if you take this quest," it might sound like you will merely be taking a reputation loss, but in this particular case, you are locking yourself in to this one faction, and excluding the possibility of doing quests with the other faction. Oddly, this can actually turn out being contrary to your reputation with the actual factions.

So, be careful trying to go all Yojimbo and play both sides.

Oh, and I agree with Nakia that this is better than the BG games. The RP aspect is so much better. The D&D alignment system is restrictive enough, and BG's half-assed implementation of it just made it worse. I haven't encountered any situation in Pillars where I felt compelled to make a decision contrary to my ideas about my character. Granted, it might still happen, but so far, it's been great from an RP perspective.

So it turns out playing on easy makes the game way too... Well, easy. I was expecting it to be hard for me even on easy since I'm so new to the genre, but I guess Dragon Age trained me well enough, haha. Normal difficulty is a lot better - just hard enough to make me have to think about my encounters, but easy enough that I don't get steamrolled.

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So, be careful trying to go all Yojimbo and play both sides.

If I can't try my hardest to pretend that I'm simultaneously be Toshiro Mifune and Clint Eastwood, then what's the point?

In other news: Durance is one creepy bastard. Seems like every time I go into scouting mode I get to hear him whispering about "THE FLAME".

Here's hoping I get another female party member soon. It's starting to turn into a real sausage-fest - not that I don't love Aloth, Eder and even Durance, creepy or no.

Also, I'm kinda confused - was Waidwen actually Eothas? Is Eothas really dead? Did Dyrwood kill a god? I hope not - Eder has me liking the guy.

One of the Backer Beta complaints was that easy was too hard so they did some rebalancing.  I think in options you can change your setting for that, make it normal.  That should be more challenging.

One of the things I really like about the game is that you have to make choices, take sides, none of this what you do doesn't matter junk.  It definitely does and the game reflects this.

Dragon, don't worry but remember that companions aren't always that easy to find.   I ran across one simply because I thought I was clicking on a quest giver.  Totally unexpected and I could easily have missed this companion.

I think you are supposed to be confused about the dead god.